The Golden Rule, Spiritual Rebirth, and "I Never Knew You"

Question #1:   Hi Doc! I had asked in bible study that is loving our neighbor is all we have to do and we're ok? and the teacher said yes, if we truly love our neighbor then we are not going to break God's law and pointed to Matt 7:12. And some people said that God cleanses us from all sins, past, present and future which I agree after studying what you had wrote on sin. But I believe that there are consequences for sin. I don't think that there are eternal ramifications for it because God's love for us is not contingent on our lack of sin. But there are always consequences for sin. Do you agree?

Response #1:  Yes I generally do agree with what you say. The first thing I would point out is that when Jesus gives us the "golden rule" in Matthew 7:12, it is prescriptive as well as proscriptive. That is, it not only means that we should NOT do anything to someone else we would NOT want them to do TO us, but also that we SHOULD do FOR someone else anything we would want them to do FOR us. Thus in His discussion with the teacher of the Law when Jesus is asked what is the greatest commandment, He replies that it is to "love God" but that the second near in importance to it is to "love others as ourselves" (Matt.22:35-40). Everything "hangs on these two commandments" because if we truly love God, we will refrain from doing whatever He does not want us to do, but will also conscientiously do whatever He does want us to do; and if we are truly "loving our neighbor as ourselves", we will likewise both refrain from harming them while not failing to do for them whatever good we should. The first or "negative" part of this equation involves our Christian "defense" or sanctification, wherein we follow the Spirit's guidance to avoid the works of the flesh (Gal.5:16-21). The second or "positive" part of this equation involves our following of the Spirit's lead to produce fruit for the Lord (Gal.5:22-26). This second part does involve good as opposed to bad behavior, but it also involves personal spiritual growth and the production or "fruit of the Spirit" that follows which helps "our neighbor" or fellow believer in Jesus follow the same path of sanctification, growth and production as well (cf. Jn.15:1-8; Rom.7:4-6; Col.1:10). Please note: by "good" it is important to understand that we are talking about God's good, not human good. What people consider "good" is often quite different from what is divinely good in truth. First and foremost, our neighbor's good is his/her salvation; for those who do believe, their spiritual growth and production is the number one priority our actions should support. This does not mean that traditional "good deeds" are out of the question (far from it); rather it means that traditional "good deeds" are only good in fact if they have the divine motivation of aiding salvation and spiritual growth at their core (and actually do contribute to that process, at least potentially). All the sacrificial charity in the world cuts no ice with God if it done for self-serving or otherwise incorrect motivations. No unbeliever will get to heaven through "good deeds" (please see the link: "The Last Judgment"); this life is all about Jesus Christ.

As far as the penalty for sin is concerned, what you say is true. Only Jesus could actually "pay" the penalty for sin. We could never be qualified to do so ourselves because we are not perfect -- and Jesus did pay the penalty for all sins which were, are, and will be committed in human history (please see the link: Unlimited Atonement). Therefore personal sin is definitely not an obstacle to our eternal salvation unless we make it one. Now no believer, no matter how spiritually advanced, will ever be completely above sinning since we will all continue to live in bodies corrupted by the sin nature as long as we abide in this life. But as believers, we are supposed to be growing, supposed to be following Jesus, supposed to be getting better not worse, supposed to be learning how to "put off the old man (i.e., sin nature)" rather than embracing it (Rom.6:6; Eph.4:22). If instead of responding to the Spirit, we decide to go our own way and sin with impunity, we will do ourselves very great damage. It is important in such discussions to draw a distinction between occasional failures (which all believers have) and a life of unrepentant, chronic sin. Even the greatest of believers like David, Elijah, Moses, and Peter and Paul were not perfect -- they all had a few signal failures which are recorded for our edification and instruction: if they could be tripped up, who are we to assume that we can be sinlessly perfect? Therefore the correct lesson to draw from their experiences is the need to be especially careful in the way we live our Christian lives. When it comes to less dramatic and less catastrophic sins and failures, these are more regular occurrences (though as I say the idea is that over time and with growth we become on balance less susceptible to failure and more resistant to it even though we will never come close to perfection). In all such cases, God provides us with the mechanism necessary to be restored to fellowship with Him and our Lord Jesus, namely, confession of sin (see the link: "Repentance, confession, and forgiveness" in BB 3B). However, even though Jesus died for all of these sins and paid the penalty for them in full, that does not mean that we will have no consequences for our sins. There are "natural consequences for sin (link to BB 3B)" and divine discipline for sin is a fact (link to BB 3B). So the consequences for sin are serious (in proportion to the seriousness of the sinning). But the matter becomes one of a threat to salvation only when a believer is so deep into rebellion against the Lord that they come to a cross-roads where they will either repent or reject His authority completely. If they take the latter road, the result is inevitably either apostasy (if they abandon their faith) or the sin unto death (if they persist in rebellion as believers): see the link in BB 3B: "Apostasy and the Sin unto Death". But as Paul tells the Ephesian believers in the context of describing such extreme rejection of the Lord's authority, "you did not learn Christ this way" (Eph.4:20). Christians who are seriously investigating and giving ear to these matters are almost never the ones in danger of anything so extreme.

Please also see:  "Christian Love"

Hope you find this helpful.

In the One who died for all our sins, our dear Savior Jesus Christ.

Bob L.

Question #2: 

Someone had told me this, and I never heard this position before.

"When a person gets saved there is a new creature inside of them "born of God" that cannot sin. However, we still have the flesh until the day we die. But that which is "born of God" that is inside the believer cannot sin. There are then two natures. We choose to either mortify the flesh (that which is NOT born of God which we still have) and thus allow that new creation make our decisions or to give into the flesh. Our flesh is not born of God and can still sin. So if we continue in the flesh (which is not "born of God") then God will more then likely mortify the flesh for us and take us home early."

Here is more on what is throwing me off.

"Was your flesh born of God? Can your flesh continue in sin? Was there not scriptural examples of people who continued in sin? (1Cor. 5; Solomon; Samson; Romans 7) The Bible does not use the word "new nature" but uses the word "new creature". No where in 1 John does it talk about birth of a "new nature" but it does talk about birth of a new creation.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision,but a new creature.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

However, Paul makes it very clear that we still live with the flesh(Romans 7). So contextually, if Paul is talking about the flesh of the believer in chapter 7, then that would tie into what is being talked about in chapter 8."

Is any of this true? What do you think?

Response #2: 

These are somewhat involved issues which are somewhat controversial. There is much more on "regeneration" in the forthcoming part 4B of the Bible Basics series: Soteriology (see the link), but as that is available only in excerpts, I will give you my take here in brief.

To begin, I don't find the two positions given in the two e-mails the only alternatives. It is true that scripture does not say we have a "new nature". But as to the "new creature / new creation", scripture says we are "new creatures / new creations", not that we have "picked up" some new tertium quid within our essential composition. Here is what I have written about "the new creation" in BB 3B Hamartiology:

Created anew: Our new life has given us a new standing with God. We are no longer sinful in His eyes. For believers, life has begun again anew, and is now to be lived for Jesus Christ apart from sin (2Cor.5:17; Eph.2:10; 4:22-24; Col.3:9-10; cf. Rom.12:2; Eph.2:15).

We believers are, like all human beings, composed of a material and a spiritual part (i.e., a body and a human spirit; see the link: "The Creation of Man" in BB 3A: Anthropology). The difference is that believers are "regenerated" (Matt.19:28; Tit.3:5), "born again" (Jn.3:1-15), "passed from death to life" (1Jn.3:14). What all of these phrases have in common is that they are refer to our possession of "eternal life", the key point of difference between believers and unbelievers. God considers us "spiritually alive" and no longer "spiritually dead", so that the curse of three-fold death (see the link: "The Three Aspects of Death" in BB 3B) that has existed for all human beings after the fall has in our case been overturned through Jesus' sacrifice and the grace that has as a result been made available to us through faith. That is why Jesus can tell Martha "He who believes in Me will live even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in Me will never die" (Jn.11:25-26): physical death is no longer an issue for us as believers because instead of being spiritually dead we are now spiritually alive and now possess eternal life (although we cannot now experience that eternal life to the full since we are in bodies with sin natures instead of in our future resurrection bodies), and instead of the second death we will experience our eternal life to the full forever. It is true that many things change for us at salvation, especially because now all believers receive the Holy Spirit when they believe. But we don't get a new human spirit, or a quickened human spirit, or a new "soul", or a new nature -- what we get is "fresh start" for our heart, and that is a very important thing. Here is what I have written about that in brief in Peter #26:

At salvation, everything becomes new. The hardness and darkness and senselessness of our inner-selves is done away with in the instant that we accept Christ as our Savior. We get a new lease on our spiritual lives -- in a moment of time. Our hearts are "cleansed by faith" (Acts 15:9), and we can now perceive God's truth. We have, in a sense, "new hearts" (Ezek.11:18-21). The former state of unbelief has passed away, and in Christ we are "new creations", with hearts untrammeled by the previous hardness and blindness (2Cor.5:17; Gal.6:15). This essentially means that the power of the old attitudes of negativity against God, all the old shackles on our spiritual perception, are broken, and we, our faith, is free to pursue God without hindrance. Along with the gift of eternal life we are given the chance and opportunity to think in accord with that pure life. This does not mean we now know everything we need to know as believers -- far from it: we still need to grow spiritually. But it does mean that we are now not hindered from doing so. God has given us a clean start in the heart. We must always be on our guard, however, against the reestablishment of the old, bad attitudes that alienated us from God in our state of unbelief.

As to Romans chapter 7, Paul is talking primarily about the state of the unbeliever who wants to do right (i.e., his situation as an unbeliever trying to follow the Law). It is only possible to do God's will through the power of His Spirit, and it is only possible for believers, those who possess eternal life and who are no longer spiritually dead, to do so. Romans 7, however, has important applications for believers too, since we are still here in life, still on the battlefield, still with sin natures in the flesh, still subject to sin and temptation, still imperfect, still prone to failure. When we give our allegiance over to sin (cf. Gal.5:16-17), we act as if we were unbelievers, and the things of Romans 7 apply to us -- until we repent and confess and are forgiven and cleansed and resume our walk up with the Lord up the high road to Zion (see the link in BB 3B: "Repentance, Confession, and Forgiveness").

As I say, these issues are somewhat involved, so please feel free to write back about any of the aspects above. You will find a great deal of related information at the following links:

"Spiritual Rebirth" (in Peter #19)

"The Believer's dealing with sin" (in BB 3B) -- includes important "changes" in believers

Hope this is helpful.

In the One who died for us that we might have eternal life and have it to the full, our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Bob L.

Question #3:

Thanks for clearing the issue up on God's hatred, it makes so much more sense now. I have a question concerning those who have cast out demons but were unsaved.

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And then consider:

Mark 3:22-24 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them [unto him], and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

Jesus said "How can Satan cast out Satan?" Then in Matthew 7:22, how can those people cast out devils in the name of Jesus and still be "workers of iniquity" ? If casting out devils in the name of Jesus is a good thing then how can both good and evil be served at the same time and if casting out devils in the name of Jesus is not a good thing, then how can Satan cast out Satan?

James 3:11-12 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet [water] and bitter? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so [can] no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

Jesus also tells them in Matthew 7:21-23 that he "never" knew them. They were always unsaved. This really confuses me.

Response #3:   

Always glad to help. On this latest question, allow me to start by focusing on Matthew 7:21-23. Some of the other passages are not necessarily directly applicable in that there are other issues of interpretation going on and I don't want to confuse what I see as the primary issue here (but feel free to write back if I don't answer all your concerns). The first and most important thing to note about this passage (and the close parallel in Luke 13:24-27) is that Jesus is addressing unbelievers, and most definitely not believers:

1) they are called "those committing lawlessness" in Matthew (anomia, "lawlessness", is sin: 1Jn.3:4) and "workers of unrighteousness" in Luke (adikia = the opposite of righteousness; cf. Heb.1:9 in the original Greek ms.). Note that these are not people who "occasionally" sinned, but rather people who are sinners, doers of unrighteousness, "by profession" (similar to the way in which believers, who do sin occasionally, are "non-sinners" by profession: cf. 1Jn.3:6).

2) they are not going into the kingdom because as it states in the previous verse only the person who "does the will of My Father in heaven" are saved / go into the kingdom (Matt.7:21), and the "will of the Father" is for everyone to believe in Jesus Christ and have eternal life (Jn.6:40).

3) as you point out He says "I never knew you" and in the Luke passage "I don't know where you're from".

So even based on the claims these people make in Matthew (i.e., even if we believe what they say, although our Lord doesn't seem to in the context), there is no indication that they ever were believers. Now if the "great things" these unbelievers claim they did were done as unbelievers, then they have no true merit with God. In the Luke passage, these people stress their familiarity with the Messiah while He was on earth, but in the Matthew passage they make some rather extraordinary claims. Even if these claims are true, however, because whatever they did will have been done not through the Spirit of God for the glory of God but through the energy of the corrupt flesh for their own personal motivations and glory, none of these so-called "good works" will count for anything before God (please see the link: "The Last Judgment"). In fact, trying to "work your way into heaven" is a gross insult to the Almighty, because it not too subtly suggests that 1) God can benefit from what you do and I may do (i.e., that He "needs us" in some way; see the link: "Satanic lie #3: 'God needs me' " and "The Distinction between Sin and Evil"), and 2) it suggests that what Jesus did on the cross wasn't good enough: you won't accept His perfect sacrifice but bring your own disgustingly foul works to lay before Him instead (just what Cain did).

Viewed in this way, I believe the question then resolves into just what these people had done. Aside from the exorcisms, they also claim to have prophesied and done miracles. Prophesying is speaking God's truth through the power of the Spirit, that is, being a direct mouth-piece for God; miracles or "powers" here are the significantly overt and undeniably supernatural kind, and while unspecified, no doubt include healing in ways that defy the natural order of things (as Jesus healed). Personally, I have my doubts about their claims. They may very well have held exorcisms (people still do this and are doing it with ever increasing frequency -- but without, so far as I can tell, any divine mandate, true spiritual gift, or actual success); they may very well have sounded off in an ecstatic state, but did they really proclaim a message from God by His Spirit?; they may very well have put their hands on the sick, but were those so ministered to really healed as a result? All of these things and similar things "happen" today too. In fact, an entire branch of Christianity is consumed with these matters, and as far as I can tell absolutely no such miracles, prophesying, or genuine expulsion of demons is really taking place at all. Many of the people who do these things are deceivers with various levels of self-deception. Some have apparently convinced even themselves that what they are doing is legitimate, but God is never deceived. The point is that if believers can engage in such questionable practices and proclaim and perhaps even believe that what they are doing is legitimate, certainly it takes no stretch of the imagination for us to assume that many unbelievers in Jesus' day had convinced themselves that they too were "working miracles" and that these "good works" guaranteed them a place in the kingdom of heaven. But, on balance, I find nothing in the protestation of these (obvious) unbelievers to convince me that they had actually accomplished what they claim. Certainly the Bible doesn't verify their claims, and Jesus never even bothers to answer them on these terms. I would suggest that they fall into the category of those today who make similar or identical claims, without these claims, however, having a stitch of truth behind them.

But let us assume that "somehow" some of these things were real -- or that the people who were doing them really believed they were real. Jesus' words to them in that case strike like lightning and have the following essential meaning: "Even if you have truly cast out demons, prophesied God's truth, and performed miracles of healing, if for all that you have not believed on Me, then you are lost; you cannot come in to the banquet in the kingdom but are instead shut out in the darkness. Nothing you could ever do of yourselves could ever save you, even if it truly were as miraculous as you claim. Salvation comes from accepting Me and My work; anything else is not of God but of the devil".

Hope this helps too!

In the Lord Jesus by faith in whom alone we have the eternal life in which we stand firm.

Bob L.

Question #4: 

My friend had wrote this and I thought is was nice to read but am not sure if there are mistakes such as "faith" being a sense. This is what he wrote: