Question #1:
Hello Dr. Luginbill,
I wanted to write this note so that perhaps you have an explanation for
the following words which are used in scripture: grieved, grievous; and
grief. I have researched all the scriptures that contain one of the
above words, and here is what I find: Eph. 4:30; Gen. 6:5-6; Isa. 63:10;
Mat. 26:38; Mk. 3:5; Mk. 14:34; Ecc. 5:13; Ecc. 5:16.
Here is my question. Is there any earthly expression that can be used to
define how God really feels when we sin besides grieves? I believe that
the answer is no. It is the same word as “sorry”, how do we explain this
when God has sorrow, In earthly terms; I can’t think of any “Human”
terms that can even come minutely close to expressing our LORD’s
reaction, to these words.
Hope you can give some guidance on this topic. Thanks so very much for
your effort and time.
Blessings to you always,
Your friend,
P.S. The reason that I asked is, yesterday, as I was going from my
office into the living room, these words came to my mind: “God is hurt
when you sin”. That is what got me wondering about these other words
like sorry, grief, grieves, etc.
Response #1:
This is what is called in theology an anthropopathism (see the link). As with anger, God is God and does not have human emotions and is not motivated as human beings are. For one thing, emotions rise up in reaction to events – and God, of course, having ordained every single event, could never be surprised. But scripture attributes human emotions to Him in order to help us understand how He "feels" about certain things. As I say in Hebrews chapter 3 (at the link), when writing about God's "anger" . . .
Importantly, however, just because our God is exceedingly merciful, kind and forgiving, and just because He does not actually get angry in the same way as we do, that is no reason to respect or revere Him less (His mercy is meant to lead us to repentance, not to embolden us to sin and rebellion: Rom.2:4; 2Pet.3:15). Indeed, it is reason to fear Him with a godly, reverent fear all that much more (as these believers in Jerusalem were failing to do).
Similarly, the fact that God is not actually feeling grief (Gen.6:6; Ps.95:10), is no reason to dismiss the passages which assert this. Rather it is all the more reason to respond properly to the indications these human emotions provide with all that much more earnestness – because His knowledge is perfect and His power is absolute. So we don't want to anger Him or grieve Him, even though it is not human anger/grief, and actually especially because it is not.
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Ephesians 4:20 NKJV
Meaning that we need to listen to the Spirit and not go against the
Spirit because that is not in our spiritual best interest by any means .
. . and there are consequences for doing the latter.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #2:
Hello again Doctor Luginbill,
Oops, I just remembered from one of your studies that you explained this
concept. I think I asked about this before. I forgot about it, but now I
remember it.
Thanks anyway for your help. Getting older (84) and sometimes I forget.
Thanks so much for reminding me.
Your friend,
Response #2:
No worries!
There is a LOT on Ichthys, and it's not the easiest site to navigate
(despite my efforts to help with that). I have trouble finding things
there too myself, sometimes!
Also, dare I say, regardless of our age, we can all stand a little
review because as a teacher I can tell you almost no one "gets it so as
never to forget it" the first time through.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #3:
Hi Dr L,
I was chatting with a guy over reddit. This is mostly inconsequential,
just that I misunderstood something he said and blew up at him. If you
were an observer you may have said there was something wrong emotionally
or psychologically with me. And yes, that is the case. I am still
getting over baggage from how I grew up. I am only saying this because I
started to get depressed because I still have so many issues after so
much time and effort. And I freaked out a little. I think God did
provide me with helpful advice from someone else (there is a forum
called rbnlifeskills (people in backgrounds like mine).
Anyway, I was realizing how many times I must have freaked up to this
point and begged God because I felt I was approaching the limit.
Possibly more than the ten times the Israelites freaked out at God. I am
afraid He will get to a similar point with me. Obviously I really don't
want that. Do you have insight?
Thank you,
Response #3:
On getting upset, we all get upset from time to time, and it's often the case that we do well with major challenges and then let that little straw be the one that breaks our back and sends us blasting out of our shoes to Pluto. It is good to recall, at such times, that "all this" down here is of no particular consequence . . . EXCEPT as it has a spiritual dimension. And of course, for believers, everything has a spiritual dimension. We know that the Lord is looking out for us and that therefore we don't have to worry about anything.
Don’t worry about anything, but in everything, through prayer and petition with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.
Philippians 4:6-7 CSB
Entering into this peace is our Church Age fulfillment of the fourth
commandment, the "rest of faith" that we are supposed to be engaging in
at all times (see
the link). Of course, that is harder to do when we are under
significant pressure, but mature believers are mature because they have
passed tests of this sort before. What is very dangerous for us all,
however, is the surprise test of the sort which you relate. When
something untoward happens suddenly, it's very easy to slip back into
pre-salvation, old sin nature mode and blow up . . . especially if we
have that tendency. Clearly, we all have strengths and weaknesses, and
we have all known individuals who have a "shorter fuse" than others. So
we all need to learn where our particular pressure points are and take
measures to train ourselves to be especially on alert where and when
these may be more likely to be attacked. Because I guarantee you that
the evil one and his followers know these vulnerabilities very well from
having observed us throughout our lives and they are always on the
lookout for a good opportunity to "get our goat".
As to what failure at one of these points means, if we don't actually DO
anything else sinful or wrong (like acting out in a physical way) and
learn also to keep our mouths shut, well, we can note the failure,
confess it, and move on, making a point in the future to do better
without getting hung up on it. Getting cut off in traffic and merely
being steamed about it, for example, but controlling oneself can be a
little "check" to let us see we still have a way to go in mastering the
sin nature. And of course, no one will completely master sin this side
of the resurrection. But controlling our feelings is the first step to
controlling our mouths and then to controlling our actions. Why is it so
hard to control our tongues (Jas.3:1-12)? Because it is doubly hard to
control our thoughts and emotions so completely that we never ever speak
anything we wish later we could take back.
For a man’s anger does not bring about the righteousness of God (i.e., what God in His perfect righteousness would have us do).
James 1:20 NASB20
But the bottom line here is that while it's good that you are concerned to do better, the fact that you are concerned is a clear sign that you are doing well. The complete failures of the exodus generation are on an entirely different level (see the link in Hebrews 3: "The Exodus Generation Paradigm). These stiff-necked people rejected any scintilla of faith in the Lord at the slightest inconvenience they suffered. They even slipped into complete idolatry just as soon as Moses was absent for a few days (the golden calf episode of Exodus 32:1ff.). What they did was so close to unbeliever behavior that we have to wonder how many of them exited this life with their faith still intact (they mostly all died the sin unto death in any case). Letting ourselves out of control momentarily, while not good, is a far different thing. If we were cooked after doing that ten times, we'd all be cooked. The fact that you notice it and are working on it actually means that you have growing faith. So as with all of our mistakes, we confess (1Jn.1:9) and determine to do better in future . . . then move on forgetting the past (Phil.3:13).
Here are some other pertinent links:
The Battlefield Within II: Combating anger, fear, blaming God, blaming others
I'm praying for you, my friend.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #4:
Hi Bob,
Just thought I would check in with you after reading this week's email
printing. How are things with you? The cold snap is finally here. The
autumn switch has been thrown.
I hit another hurdle recently. The neighbour situation has worsened
again. There may be domestic violence going on. Constant rows and
clattering of objects against walls and floors. I came in for a hard
test over this one and it was an area of my chainmail that had already
worn the links away and had been patched over so I didn't do very well.
About divine discipline. How would we know the difference between this
and undeserved suffering? Would it be obvious that there was a definite
cause? I lost my temper yesterday and yelled at the couple smoking drugs
last night and slammed the door. My temper is not great.
Immediately after I had really bad pains so I wondered whether this was
discipline or not. I know as we try to sanctify our walk, the more we
mature, the more the Lord expects of us. Moses' reaction doesn't seem so
bad to us as his run up was pretty flawless in all other respects (apart
from when he was griping about not being a good speaker. I know the Lord
was angry about that.)
Not that I am comparing myself to Moses of course but I have noticed in
my own walk that what I considered sinful at the beginning of my walk
has changed. I realise more and more less obvious sins that I do. It
seems that I first see macro (gross sins) and later see the more micro
sins that other people and even some Christians wouldn't even see as bad
at all. I am not having hyper-scrupulosity here either. It seems as
though, as we mature, our knowledge of what is sinful broadens rather
than lessens. We obviously shouldn't be doing the sins of the hand once
we have been walking for a while but then we focus on the sins of the
tongue and the mind. These have an overlap for me. Some days I almost
feel as though I do have mastery over the tongue in some situations but
then can be baited to drop my guard. There is overlap here with the
thoughts and the sins of the tongue. I will really be glad to bridle my
tongue. It feels a mammoth undertaking but I know the Holy Spirit will
make even the impossible possible! So how do we know it is divine
discipline?
Also I know it is false teaching that the Holy Spirit leaves us when we
sin. What happened to David then when he was left alone? I am sure
yesterday after my yelling I suddenly felt the Lord be distant from me.
I have confessed and moved on though and now feel back to normal. Was
this grieving the Holy Spirit? I realise that I didn't need to yell and
it served no purpose. I didn't even feel a relief in the flesh when I
did it. I immediately felt bad after and I had a split second indecision
about doing it but did it anyway and it was really very bad indeed on my
part.
I am tired of chasing the police about next door. This time I want to
leave it wholly with the Lord and pray to get through from His
deliverance. I think it would be good for me to prioritise this route
first rather than looking to people for help as I know there will be no
law and order during the Tribulation so I had better get used to always
seeing the Lord as my first and best refuge and deliverer. Walking by
faith not by sight is not immediately easy is it. There is fear of
falling just as Peter feared the waves lapping up at him when he
attempted to walk on water. This is one of my favourite chapters of the
Gospels. It so beautifully captures the fear we have at times when
trying to walk by faith.
Sometimes I see it as trying to walk a tightrope between two mountains
blindfolded but knowing that even if you did fall you would miraculously
be put back on the rope again.
Hope this finds you well my friend!
In Him,
p.s. you are a wordsmith.. what is the etymology or connection (if any)
with the words 'disciple' and 'discipline'.
Response #4:
The words "discipline" and "disciple" are both Latin derived and both,
in Latin, come from the verb disco, which means "to learn"; so that a
disciple is a "learner" or student (an exact equivalent to mathetes
in Greek, often translated "disciple"), and "discipline" is a field
of learning or the application of a lesson. Here too, the Latin
equivalent parallels the Greek of the Bible nicely. In Greek we have
paideia and paideuo for discipline as noun and verb
respectively; both words derive from pais, paid-os meaning
"child" (cf. pediatrics, pedagogy), so these words mean in their
original application the bringing up and teaching of a child – which
involves corporal punishment as well as other methods.
In terms of divine discipline per se, Hebrews chapter twelve spells out
most of the principles. The Father is comporting Himself towards us as
His dear children when He disciplines us, doing whatever it is He does
for our own good in every way. However, of course, "no chastening seems
to be joyful for the present, but painful" (Heb.12:11 NKJV), it's only
later that "it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace", and in
these respects divine discipline is also exactly parallel to punishment
received from one's human parents. One of the more important differences
is that our parents, even wonderful ones such as I was blessed to have,
could have been wrong occasionally since no human being is perfect, but
our heavenly Father is both loving and perfect in His application of
punishment. If we are feeling down instead of grateful when we get
"spanked", we should take Paul's words in that chapter to heart in
quoting Proverbs 3:11-12:
"My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; For whom the LORD loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives" Hebrews 12:5b-6 NKJV
There is a good deal about this in BB 3B:
Hamartiology; see especially
section IV.4 "The Fact and Purpose of Divine Discipline" and IV.5
"Principles of Divine Discipline".
Anger is something most believers have to deal with from time to time,
some more than others (see the link:
"In your
anger, do not sin").
But God said to Jonah, “Do you have a good reason to be angry about the plant?” And he said, “I have good reason to be angry, even to the point of death!”
Jonah 4:9 NASB20
(26) When you are upset, don't give in to sin; don't let the sun set while you are still upset (i.e., don't brood over this irritation). (27) That will only give the devil an opportunity.
Ephesians 4:26-27
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
James 1:19-20 KJV
The other day I was out for my constitutional and was coming up my side
street to the main drag. There is a blind corner formed by a restaurant
through whose plate glass windows one can see what's coming on the other
side – but not if it is coming up the sidewalk as fast as one of those
heavy electric scooters which are now all the rage. I came within a hair
of being run down . . . and I might have expressed my appreciation
verbally. A gut reaction. Really, it would be better to have focused
with gratitude on the fact that the Lord kept me from getting seriously
injured – which might well have happened, all OTHER things being equal.
The other day, I was very late getting to my supper (working on the
latest Bible project and wanted to finish the section I'm in). Decided
on a salad and was grabbing things out of the fridge in haste. The
Caesar dressing hit the floor (in a tub) and splattered a bit. And I was
miffed . . . a bit. Retrieved it and headed to the counter, but only had
it by the top which had been loosened. And the whole thing hit the deck
and splattered like someone deliberately tossing an open can of paint.
Covered the floor, the counter side, the rug, my shoes, my pants. I let
out a primal scream. Bad move. After all, it was my fault for being
hasty in the first place, then not taking extra care when it had already
been proven that this tub was a problem. And who was I angry at, anyway?
I'd like to say "myself", and that is true to some degree. But when we
blow our tops, it's generally not just "about" something but "at"
someone. And it's certainly not the Lord's fault. Now I didn't
consciously blame Him or anything like that, but it did get me thinking
about how pointless – and spiritually dangerous – anger is. It certainly
doesn't accomplish "God's righteousness". There is such a thing as
genuine and godly "righteous indignation", but it is a fairly rare
commodity. Most of the time when we get angry, it involves turning off
the Spirit's still small voice and giving in to madness instead – and we
best take care if even subconsciously to the slightest degree we may
be directing any of it God's way (nothing more foolish than that).
To the Greeks, orge, "anger", is emotion generally, anger
particularly, and insanity especially. We see this in English as well.
If a person is "mad" they may be either angry or insane. And what is
anger anyway if not temporary insanity? It took me about an hour of
unpleasant clean up the other night (laundry late at night and floor
scrubbing is not my happy place, washing shoes and rugs etc.). But
getting angry about it in such a stupid way was of absolutely no help.
And it was a momentary lapse of faith. Why not rather laugh about it?
After all, nothing is unknown to the Lord. If it was a small bit of
discipline, best to accept it humbly. If it was "just one of those
things", a little test, well, I failed that one pretty good. Note to
self: there are likely to be bigger losses than an hour of time and a tub
of salad dressing in the not too distant future. Bigger tests too. I
think we who are trying to walk close to the Lord are better at the
bigger, obvious tests than the little, more subtle ones. But they all
have their place – and they are all important.
Keeping you in my prayers, my friend.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #5:
Thanks Bob,
I would gladly face the job of cleaning the whole house from salad
dressing than what I have now. We have had a wretched few days. The
latest neighbours are on the Cannabis from 7am to midnight every night.
There's rowing and throwing furniture around. Late night gig sessions.
Late night comings and goings until 3am. I suspect the young man is
actually having a psychotic break from reality as he spends the day
running up and down the stairs and on Sunday night screamed profanity
repeatedly at the bedroom walls after midnight. What do I do? On Sunday
afternoon I prayed for them but by Sunday night, one was screaming
profanity at the wall completely unconcerned for the little children
living next door to him. I am not praying for them now.
I remember when I put up that fight at the University against bullying
and the place was so rotten to the core that you said I should just have
walked.
As Christians what are we supposed to do? I am feeling confused, upset
and worn down.
I was angry with next door but I also see how lost they are. They are
only in their 20s and only live every day for smoking weed. It is so
disturbing to see them walk around the block like zombies. They may be
dealing, we don't know. The place is still owned by the same couple in
Hong Kong. The man who was trafficked here by the Albanian mafia to run
the drug farm is now in Witness protection and in fear for his life.
I have called out the police when I suspected domestic violence and
contacted the estate agent as they are in violation of their contract.
Should I be doing any of this? We are not supposed to be involved in
civilian life but I know we are not to turn a blind eye to evil but at
the same time, how much type of this fighting should we be doing? I have
realised that I have been fire fighting in this street now for so long.
It occurred to me that as long as the Landlords own it, they'll just
slide another one of their pawns in there. As long as this weapon that
Satan uses against me works, why would he stop using it? Maybe the next
guys will be worse?
It suddenly occurred to me while writing this. My street becomes more
and more like Sodom every day. But then I asked myself? Why didn't Lot
leave Sodom of his own accord? He hated the things that were going on
there. Was it because his family liked the place? Maybe God is saying
that I can't fight Sodom so I should just leave it behind. The problem
is that the whole world will be like Sodom soon. I can't carry on fire
fighting then as God will be allowing everyone to embrace evil at that
point (apart from a remnant).
In Him,
p.s. [omitted] Didn't know what to say!
Response #5:
I have been keeping __ and her situation in prayer. Maybe this will end
up being a wake-up call for her if things go from bad to worse (as is
likely). The Lord knows just what is necessary to turn a person around.
On your situation, there are a number of levels here. First, let me say
that I didn't mean to compare a minor kitchen mishap (to which I reacted
badly) to an unlivable situation at home. Having been in the latter on
numerous occasions in my life, with some tests lasting years, I know
full well how difficult those can be.
1) In terms of testing, yes it is true that the evil one has a tendency
to keep hitting us where it has been proven in the past that we have
some particular vulnerability. It's not rocket-science. If we, limited
human beings that we are, were given to conduct surveillance on just
about anyone for a few weeks, we would probably have no difficulty
figuring out what most tempts them, what is most likely to "get their
goat", etc. Demons have a lot more time, opportunity and experience in
this sort of thing, so no surprises that they are good at it. But we
also have to remember that it's not as if there is no Referee. God never
allows us to be tested beyond what we are able to actually endure
(1Cor.1:13), though often it may feel like it (that is where faith comes
in). Sometimes repeated tests are just that so as to give us the
opportunity to (finally) pass.
2) In terms of specific actions we might take, just because we can,
doesn't mean we should. On the other hand, we're not called to be
martyrs of our own making. If there are legitimate things we can do
about any given situation, it might not be the worst thing to take some
necessary and legitimate actions in response to difficult situations. We
do our best to avoid quarrels of course (Prov.17:14), but there is a
time and a place for confrontation, and when things are becoming
dangerous for our safety and that of our loved ones, I for one would
probably say or do something. As to "what", I know little about your
legal system. Over here, there are laws that prohibit the sort of
behaviors you have chronicled. If the police refuse to intervene, a
person can go to court and get a restraining order or take other
pro-active measures – for which contracting with a lawyer (solicitor?)
would be a prudent step. There are also legal measures that could be
taken against the owners here, a law suit or other possible measures
short of that (again, nothing I would wish to try and strap on without
professional help and advice). Finally, we have city council persons
whom we elect every few years. Their offices will sometimes take action
if they get enough complaints. Establishing or working through some
local groups of residents can be very effective in regard to the latter:
one person complaining is a crank; a neighborhood watch group is a
potential voting bloc. I hasten to add that NONE of the above is good
for one's blood pressure and usually ends up being more stressful,
time-consuming and generally wearing than just enduring the situation
one is trying to resolve, so in my view it's best not to engage here
until the proverbial last straw has definitively dropped on our back –
and then to do so after prayer and putting the matter in the Lord's
hands.
3) In terms of messaging from the Lord, it is also true that if we are
not in the situation He wants us in, He has a way of ramping up the
pressure until we finally do change whatever that situation is. Ideally,
we figure that out by listening to the Spirit and thus avoid a long,
hard adjustment. But it took a LOT to get Lot out of Sodom if you recall
(Gen.19:1ff.).
4) You know your own mind, situation, potentials and potential options
better than anyone, so no one else can either properly diagnose all that
for you – which is of course essential to doing the right thing. I
honestly can't really put myself into that situation and tell you "I'd
do X". But it does seem to me that you have three options: a) fight, b)
move, c) grit your teeth and endure it. The hardest part of tests like
this is becoming confident that we've figured out what the correct
course of action is. Mixing them, waffling back and forth from one to
the other, never results in peace nor an ultimate solution. On some
level at least this is a test. Figuring out what the Lord wants you to
do is a part of that no doubt. But whatever is done, it has to be done
in faith (Rom.14:23; cf. Jas.4:17).
Cast your burden on the LORD,
And He shall sustain you;
He shall never permit the righteous to be moved.
Psalm 55:22 NKJV
Surely the righteous will never be shaken; they will be remembered forever.
They will have no fear of bad news; their hearts are steadfast, trusting in the LORD.
Their hearts are secure, they will have no fear; in the end they will look in triumph on their foes.
Psalm 112:6-8
You who fear the LORD, trust in the LORD;
He is their help and their shield.
Psalm 115:11 NKJV
I'm praying for your guidance into the right conclusion – and help with
embracing it thereafter, whatever it turns out to be.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #6:
Thanks Bob,
You've been great support. You cheered me up with your Ceasar Salad. I
wasn't offended, you just caught me at a harassed moment. I guess that I
am caught up in heavy duty fire from all sides at the moment. As I have
already made a complaint but the second one made me look like a cranky
kook, I have passed it on to __and another neighbour and decided to
trust it to the Lord's hands instead.
I guess this is good practice for the Tribulation isn't it? I'm sure
we'll be getting it from all sides and fast and furious then right? I
guess it is good for me to learn now from this and iron all the creases
out now so that I will get it right when the balloon goes up?
God loves us so this must be for my best then. It is probably to get me
used to being under heavy fire but still stand firm and steady in my
faith. When I think of it like this, it helps so much! Taking regular
time out from people and distractions to pray and study is so important
as is renewing my thinking on Him. Whenever I do that I feel the right
way up and don't feel swamped as when I look at the waves instead.
Easier said than done when it comes thick and fast!
In Jesus,
Response #6:
It's my pleasure, my friend. Good to hear that you are rallying
spiritually. It is so true that whatever is happening, however hard the
test, we always "feel better" when we resolve to trust the Lord with it,
regardless of whatever pain may be involved. And, yes, any test we have
to endure now is by definition lighter than the load of the greatest
trouble in history, that time of "great distress, unequaled from the
beginning of the world until now – and never to be equaled again"
(Matt.24:21 NIV).
I'm praying for your success in coping with and trying to guide your
family into healthy directions. That can't be easy.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
[note: our friend was delivered from this unhappy situation a few months
later]
Question #7:
Thank you Doc.
I tend to get irrationally angry over the smallest inconvenience or
annoyance as you know by now. I know what the Bible says about being
angry and not sinning, and not being angry for long, but does it have
any guidance on controlling it?
I was watching some videos about how to properly do something that
involves debating, and it brought up a good point: A lot of people don't
even really understand what debating is. It's about trying to come to a
consensus between 2 opposing viewpoints, even if that means you turn out
to be wrong. Most people I see on the internet seem to only "debate" to
prove themselves right, to the point of constantly pushing on in
obviously hopeless situations in a debate. I feel like this relates a
lot to the Faith in a way. A lot of teachers refuse to admit they're
wrong on a lot of things or even anything, and in my experience those
who truly want the truth even if that means abandoning them they thought
to be true are rare. I understood that if someone doesn't want the truth
no amount of debating with them will change that for a while, but really
most people who don't believe in God, even if they'll admit defeat and
change positions when proven wrong with anything else, will regress into
fighting a losing battle just to make themselves look better and/or make
their opponent look dumb, I think this is because the consequences of if
they admit defeat are too much for them to bear even the thought of in
this case...as someone who tries to test the validity of things with
logic, which is how I came to believe the Bible and still do even in
times of great doubt, and continue to follow this ministry, it's very
sad to see such normally rational and even collected when it comes to
finding truth people turn to anger and fallacies when faces with the
truth above all others, that being the Cross. I take no pleasure in
seeing these kinds of people fall into these habits in any debate or
discussion, but it's almost too much to bear to see people who normally
are like me, who I feel for a while I could commune with, reject the
truth willfully for a lie they'd rather believe when it comes to the
most important question of all.
Emotion truly is a powerful thing is it?...love of self and hatred for
anything that might take away one's dictation over everything in their
life (which demonstrably only leads to emptiness and vain searching for
purpose that will never be truly found) is so powerful it takes a very
strong mind to overcome it...with help from God showing the truth of
course.
Response #7:
Short answer to your first question: "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall
not fulfill the lust of the flesh." (Gal.5:16 NKJV). For the "how do I
do that?", please see
BB 5: Pneumatology, "Empowerment of the Believer".
I was on the debate team for a year or so at my first (of many) college.
Debate as the word is used and understood in this country is an
adversarial presentation of competing ideas, not to achieve a synthesis
but to demonstrate one as being superior to the other through
argumentation and the presentation of evidence.
Christian apologetics may involve debate. But as I often say, this is
not an apologetics ministry. Like you, I enjoy giving people the truth
and letting them decide before God what to do with it. This does
occasionally also involve trying to convince them of the truth, but not
in an adversarial way where they are hardened against the truth and
forever wedded to their own misapprehensions (Matt.7:6). Sometimes I do
engage with people who are or who are close to the latter – for the sake
of readers who are not. But it's not profitable to throw pearls before
swine because pigs, by definition, are unable to appreciate the truth.
You are certainly correct in seeing emotion lying at the root of all
this. The only way that anyone can believe lies is to first reject the
truth, and that is always based on a personal choice to call God a liar
and prefer one's own inventions (actually, the devil's) instead. See the
link:
"Hardening the Heart".
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #8:
Doc, please pray I'll be able to overcome my hatred...it causes me to even blaspheme the Lord sometimes because my anger gets in the way of understanding that His ways are better than manmade solutions.
Response #8:
I do pray for you daily.
. . . because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires.
James 1:20 NIV
It's rare when we are angry that we are in a spiritually good place. It is understandable and sometimes justifiable to be outraged by certain things (such as the recent Hamas atrocities against the innocent), but we always need to temper this emotion with the control of the Holy Spirit and "not let the sun go down" on that anger, whatever the cause of it may have been (Eph.4:26).
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
1st Corinthians 13:4-7 NIV
If we are walking in love, walking in the Spirit, then anger for our own sakes, anger on account of some offense given to us, will be a rare thing – something to be suppressed when it does rise up.
“In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,
Ephesians 4:26 NIV
When Uzzah was slain by the Lord for touching the ark of God, David became "angry at the Lord" (2Sam.6:6-8). Never a good thing for any of us. And that anger soon turned to fear (2Sam.6:9) – also ill-advised when that fear is not the pure, healthy, godly fear in which we delight (Ps.19:9; Is.11:3), but instead an indication that we are out of sorts, out of fellowship with Him. Jonah likewise became angry – with the Lord, really – for not destroying Nineveh and for causing the vine that had comforted him to wither. But what does our Lord say to Him?
Then the LORD said, “Is it right for you to be angry?”
Jonah 4:4 NKJV
Answer: sure not! Not with the Lord who died for our sins and rescued us from the lake of fire by facing the terror and the darkness and spiritual death on our behalf! Not, that is, unless we have become so ungrateful as to forget these precious things. Better to put it all in His hands, remembering that He is working it all out together for good (Rom.8:28), and keep in mind that there is a great deal that we don't yet know – but that we CAN trust Him even (and especially) so.
He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8 NIV
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #9:
Hi Dr Luginbill,
I really hope you don't get frustrated at me for writing this, but if
you do, you don't have to respond. I will be ok.
I read a lot of books. And sometimes I come across characters of both
genders that can just not hold grudges, they just let things go. I wish
I were more like that. But how do protect yourself from people
continuously harming you? I thought maybe, since I had recently
concluded that we must take care of our own needs, and some of our wants
are needs, that if we fill that up, we can take it better. I the Lord
says how often we must forgive our brother (a lot).
I want to be like those people who forget those things. I notice those
people tend to make sure they are covered. Almost like tit for tat, but
not exactly. I know people say that that is bad, but those are the
people that seem more happy to me than others who act more like doormats
and the resentment just builds to the point there is no cure.
It seems to me that some tit for tat is necessary. But you need to do it
quickly and not let grudges build. As an aside, I do hear of and see
relationships where things got so bad for the wife that there was
nothing the husband could do when she was finally done. And I think
'maybe if she had been a little more tit for tat in the the moment when
it was happening it wouldn't be like this' because how do you fix years
and years and years of build up? Obviously friendships are different,
just an example. Am I making sense?
When I read the Chronicles of Narnia, it is a similar thing. There is a
lot of familial relationships where they shove each other a bit
(literally and verbally), and it seems healthier to me than the version
of forgiveness some Christians teach that if someone shoves you, you do
nothing and just put with it forever and just try to ignore the building
of negative feelings toward that person. Am I making sense? The point I
am getting at is that I think the idea of forgiveness as I was taught it
by my parents, but I see elsewhere too, is not correct (never doing tit
for tat back, or shoving back, etc). If I haven't lost you, do you think
I am understanding more correctly?
Response #9:
When I've said in the past, that believers are not required to be doormats, that is something different from hauling off and smacking someone in the nose for insulting us. We're not required to have anything to do with those who abuse us; we are allowed to stand up for ourselves in ways which are legitimate for seeking redress in whatever venue we are talking about. Being nasty with others, verbally or physically, retaliating for the sake of spite and anger, these are not Christian behaviors – although we are all tempted to them. I would venture that more than 50% of fiction, written or video, has to do with "revenge motivation". But God has told us to leave that sort of thing to Him (Deut.32:35; Rom.12:19; Heb.10:30). To trust Him when it comes to the "tit for tat", that is always the best policy . . . if for no other reason than that He knows how to make our enemies regret their actions and is able to achieve that far better than we could ever dream of.
Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12:17-21 NIV
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #10:
In summary,
1) So the Biblical thing is to tell the person to stop (if they are
verbally or physically hurting you (or just being rough/mean), and if
they won't, if you can, to remove yourself from them (since we don't
just have to take and take and take __) physically as much as you can.
And leave what you can't up to God. If it happens that you are stuck for
a long time and you have a lot of negative feelings, that may just be
how it ends up and you have to separate when you do get the chance. Even
if they just want it to magically go away. (Forgiving someone doesn't
mean you let them back in close again).
2) And then added on to that, you help your enemy to the degree you can.
Which may be feeding them, or in really bad cases, staying away and only
praying for them.
Response #10:
I don't have any problem with any of this – but I am reluctant to make
rules. The scriptures "say what they say and mean what they say";
figuring out just what that is, is what orthodox biblical interpretation
and exegesis is all about. APPLYING the truth to specific life
circumstances is what we learn to do as believers with the help of the
Holy Spirit whom we are learning to follow better day by day (see
the link).
It wouldn't take a lot of imagination to come up with lots of scenarios
where these interpretations might collide with each other or not be so
crystal clear. But we don't have to worry about that . . . and we
shouldn't. We don't have to deal with hypotheticals; we only have to
deal with what the Lord actually puts on our plate. If we are advancing
spiritually, we will have plenty of truth in our hearts for the Spirit
to work with when some such thing arises as we move forward (we should
avoid retrospectives on what went on in the past); add prayer and
faith-rest and you have the biblical formula for passing tests such as
this.
Those who work their land will have abundant food, but those who chase fantasies have no sense.
Proverbs 12:11 NIV
Those who follow the above advice, that is, who "mind their own business" as it actually is in reality and don't waste time fantasizing or running through hypothetical scenarios (which never ever work out the way one imagines) are far happier than those who don't.
. . . and [we urge you] to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you,
1st Thessalonians 4:11 NIV
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #11:
Do you want to know something though? Right before my freshman year in
high school I had decided to try to live for God. Before then, I had
lived in a 'do whatever it takes to get less pain from my parents' which
meant moving and saying and thinking as little as possible. And just
going along with whatever they said. But before freshman year I tried to
become active in living out the faith regardless of them hurting me
(privately, I did not tell them this). And that same year, if I remember
correctly, that same year I was taken out of that environment and put in
a Home. Which was a safe haven (because they were so bad). But I just
thought that that was interesting.
I don't mean to be annoying just that when you say no thinking
retrospectively or in hypotheticals, I just can't imagine where I would
be if I hadn't done that kind of thing. Because I am sure I would be in
a very bad place. I don't know how else I would have grown past all that
I have or learned as much as I have.
I do really appreciate what you wrote. It was helpful, and I do
appreciate you answering my question of if some of the principles I was
laying out were in the right direction.
Response #11:
God does look after us!
In terms of "after action reports", well, there's nothing wrong with
learning from our mistakes. But for individuals, we know good and well
what we did wrong or failed to do without a lot of introspection and
rehashing of the past. Getting hung up on churning over the past is
never a good idea, spiritually speaking. We confess and move on, if we
were wrong. We forgive and move on, if others were. We trust the Lord
and move forward.
Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3:13-14 NIV
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #12:
Hello Prof. Bob!
How are you doing? How is the "day job" going - so to speak?
I'm continuing to go through a series of life lessons here; it seems a
blessing that I'm being allowed an opportunity to take root before
things worsen. What a gracious God!
I wanted to thank you for the email content on the "unpardonable sin";
reading it has been an encouragement after an accidental thought crossed
my mind and sent me spiraling. To clarify my understanding, the sin is
unpardonable due to the fact that said people doing it don't seek a
pardon. If they were to do so, God would forgive. Do you know the
interpretation mistake as to why so many think it's not forgivable?
Along that vein, did you have recommended article links about the
"limit" of God's forgiveness? It doesn't really make sense to me that if
people have a heart to seek the Lord that He wouldn't extend repentance
(which seems to be something I've heard in the case of believers who
turn their backs on God/apostatize). It seems like a very important
matter in understanding the character of God.
Perhaps someone could point to the initial generation of Israelites not
being allowed to enter the promised land as "proof" of pushing it to
far, but I wonder the context there.
I also wanted to ask if you had any insight on John 5:37. A friend and I
were curious the wording given that in Matthew 3 God had spoken at the
Lord's baptism.
Was it that He spoke but some people hadn't heard? Did the "hearing"
mean obeying (Jeremiah 5:21 seems a good example)?
Have a blessed day in the Lord! Thanks for the aid during this time as
well as the content!
Response #12:
Good to hear from you. I'm doing pretty well. The "day job" is not so
bad this fall, though very busy. It's a blessing to have my job (since
it is needful), and I'm very grateful to the Lord to still be able to do
it well – so thanks for your prayers on that score!
I also love your attitude: testing as an opportunity to learn how to
trust the Lord better. We should all have that same attitude when the
pressure ramps up. But even if we can't be joyous about trouble, we can
still hang onto the peace our Lord left us and to which we are called
(Jn.14:27; 1Cor.7:17); and that walking in peace with the Lord is the
fulfillment of the 4th commandment for us Church Age believers, the new,
moment by moment Sabbath rest (Heb.4:9-11;
see the link).
On the so-called unpardonable/unforgivable sin, this is what our Lord
calls "blaspheming the Holy Spirit" as some of His contemporaries did
when they attributed His miracles, done in the power of the Spirit, to
the devil instead. That rejection of His works – which proved that He
was sent by the Father – entailed rejection of His words, namely, the
gospel. Rejecting the gospel, refusing to be saved, is the one sin for
which Christ could not die, the sin of rejecting Himself (2Tim.2:13). So
this particular "sin" is the sin of unbelief. But anyone who repents of
their unbelief and turns to Christ is saved.
As to "why so many think" or claim things which are untrue, that DOES
have to do with the devil and the system of lies which are the
foundation of his present kingdom. Satan does not appreciate the truth
being taught in any form and resists it vigorously. One of the main ways
he opposes the truth is with lies and liars (see
the link). And it really makes little difference to him whether the
human agents who are spreading his propaganda are died-in-the-wool
satanists or confused/deceived wayward believers, just as long as the
lie gets out there and contributes to the suppression of the truth. With
the coming of the internet, there has probably never been a time such as
this where so many and such diverse lies and systems of lies are so
readily available. And they serve also to provide a lot of hay to the
haystack wherein a few needles of truth have been placed. I can
certainly tell you that fewer people are "finding" Ichthys than in past
decades, for example. But before we despair, we recall that God is
working everything out for good, and that no one who genuinely wants to
grow from the Word will ever be deprived of what they need to do so.
"So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened."
Luke 11:9-10 NKJV
I don't have any special links on any limit on God's forgiveness because it is truly unlimited. Jesus Christ died for every single sin of everyone who has ever lived or will in all of human history. The only actual, practical limit on God's grace and forgiveness is the limit that any given individual places on it him/herself. For believers, we are forgiven whatever we have done, or said or thought whenever we confess those sins, along with being forgiven anything else we may have forgotten about or not noticed (1Jn.1:9); for unbelievers, they are forgiven all of their past sins the instant they put their faith in Christ. Only those who do not accept Christ do not receive the redemption which is "in Him" (Eph.1:7; Col.1:14).
"Not one of those who saw my glory and the signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times."
Numbers 14:22 NIV
The exodus generation is a good example of how God comports Himself towards His people (see the link). What a bunch of losers they were! Look at all God did for them! All those miracles in Egypt, then delivering them with an mighty hand and out-stretched arm, destroying the entire Egyptian army, parting the Red Sea and bringing them through dry-shod. Their shoes didn't wear out for 40 years, their food came down from heaven without any serious labor on their part other than collecting it, all their needs were provided for. But every single time anything didn't go their way, they complained, they grumbled, they rebelled. They opposed Him over and over again, they wouldn't let go of their pagan idolatry and they engaged in immorality at every opportunity. They were never ever grateful. And . . . they lacked faith.
Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
Hebrews 3:16-19 NIV
There were over a million of these individuals and none of them entered the land except for Joshua and Caleb. Even Moses was not allowed to go in on account of finally losing his temper and his patience with these people. Of all the rest, we cannot say for certain who died the sin unto death (believers taken home in the ultimate punishment of divine discipline) and who turned completely into apostasy (reverting to the status of unbelievers) since these two ends often look similar so that in many cases only God knows (cf. Num.27:3 which could go either way). But we can say that this generation, the exodus generation, was proverbial for the way NOT to do it ("it" being how to live the Christian life):
Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
1st Corinthians 10:1-11 NKJV
Since these people are one of the prime examples of what to avoid, I don't think we can take our Lord's longsuffering and mercy towards them and any indication of any lack of willingness to forgive. He sent His Son into the world to die for their sins, after all, stubborn and rebellious as they were for forty long years.
How often they rebelled against him in the wilderness and grieved him in the wasteland! Again and again they put God to the test; they vexed the Holy One of Israel.
Psalm 78:40-41 NIV
If any had been willing to repent, we can be sure that in spite of all that had gone before He would have forgiven them. That is the gracious, kind and loving God who is our Father.
The LORD is merciful and gracious,
Slow to anger, and abounding in mercy.
He will not always strive with us,
Nor will He keep His anger forever.
He has not dealt with us according to our sins,
Nor punished us according to our iniquities.
For as the heavens are high above the earth,
So great is His mercy toward those who fear Him;
As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our transgressions from us.
As a father pities his children,
So the LORD pities those who fear Him.
Psalm 103:8-13 NKJV
But for those who refuse to come back to Him, life eventually runs out and with it the opportunity to repent. The only limit is human hardness of heart.
With the merciful You will show Yourself merciful;
With a blameless man You will show Yourself blameless;
With the pure You will show Yourself pure;
And with the devious You will show Yourself shrewd.
Psalm 18:25-26 NKJV
On John 5:37, if you are asking about Matthew 3:17, it doesn't say in that passage that those present heard this as words to be understood if they heard it at all, nor does it say that this was the Father's voice as it actually would sound in heaven. Compare:
Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came from heaven, saying, “I have both glorified it and will glorify it again.” Therefore the people who stood by and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to Him.”
John 12:28-29 NKJV
For comparison, consider 1st John 4:12 ("No one has seen God at any time.") and 1st Timothy 6:16 ("[the Father] whom no one has seen or can see") – and yet we have other passages such as this:
But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.
Exodus 24:11 NIV
In the above case, it is clear that what they did NOT see was His refulgent and unobscured glory – because no one can see that and live, as Moses was told when he asked to see the glory of the Lord:
But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.”
Exodus 33:20 NKJV
So it seems clear then whenever God does manifest Himself to mortal
human beings, there is a restriction, a holding-back of the absolute
glory of Him, otherwise no human being could endure it. That is true of
sight and no doubt true of sound as well. See the link:
Appearances
of God
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #13:
Hi Prof. Bob!
I apologize for the delay, and thank you for taking the time to share
all that.
As a side note, all the emails posted on Christmas are appreciated! I've
understood the necessity to "stand by ground" in matters of conviction
and faith, but there is a difference I'm learning between application.
You really can find evil, or in the least a lack of ideal, in everything
apart from the Lord and His Truth. It seems if I don't learn to pick
battles I'll be consumed with overseeing an expanse of anthills.
Have a blessed day in the Lord! Apologies again for the delay. Thank you
for all the effort you put into the website.
Response #13:
No worries!
I'm very happy to help any time.
Keeping you in my prayers, my friend.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #14:
Thanks Doc...do more serious sins require a more penitent and serious repentance for said repentance to be valid? I'd imagine murdering someone would take a much more contrite change of heart than stealing a pencil for God to accept it...is this really true though?
Response #14:
As to "more penitent and serious repentance", repentance is a change of
mind/attitude about what we have done; confession is simply admitting it
to the Lord. We are forgiven based upon Christ's spiritual death for our
sins. Our emotions are not the basis for our forgiveness. Esau was very
upset (Heb.12:17) and sought a change "with tears", but he was not truly
repentant – he never became a believer.
Of course in terms of divine discipline, you can bet that worse offenses
result in worse punishment. If your three year old hits his sister, you
might paddle him. If at ten years old he sets the house on fire because
he's made about something, you might confine him to Juvenile Hall
(e.g.). God is the perfect Father and in His case "the punishment always
fits the crime", and perfectly so.
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
1st John 3:15 NKJV
Some things are indicative of not being saved. So while there is a
difference, e.g., between telling a lie and "being a liar" in scripture,
the former activity (murder) is more indicative of "being" that thing
rather than of "doing" that thing, i.e., of being an unbeliever rather
than of being a believer.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #15:
Dear Brother Bob, hope you are well.
Thanks so much for the detailed response and for sharing truth. I have
learned more from you than I have in Bible college and seminary. (I am
doing distance, self-paced education as I am working full time but there
is no mentorship). I think I did not have a complete understanding of
salvation. I’ve seen people profess faith in Christ, but use curse words
and have slept with multiple people. Thanks for describing the grammar
of John 3:18 and the difference between believers and unbelievers.
I have an unrelated question. The NT has a lot to say about forgiveness.
Forgiveness is at the heart of the Gospel. I
wanted to ask you as you have an extensive knowledge of Greek, what is
the Greek word for forgiveness and what does it mean to forgive? As a
counselor, I have never fully understood forgiveness. I have had many
people in my office that hold on to bitterness and grudges that are
decades old, but some people seem to forgive easier than others. I was
wondering what is the Biblical understanding of forgiveness? I know
forgiveness does not mean forgetting.
Thanks Brother Bob,
Response #15:
Thanks for the good words.
On forgiveness, the NT Greek word for it is aphiemi, and that is
the standard word for it in the Bible. It means, etymologically,
something like "send away", but, as often is the case, it's the usage we
have to look to more than the original derivation (which, from the way
"forgive" is used today, seems not to occur to people when they do use
it).
I would start by saying that God's forgiveness is different from man's
forgiveness (see
the link). He is God and so there is no emotional aspect to His
forgiveness (even though in scripture it often is described that way in
order to teach us about His attitude; theologically this is called
anthropopathism: at the link).
God's forgiveness is also not arbitrary whereas with human beings it
often is. God is perfect and His standard is perfect. He forgives all on
the same basis, and we know very well what that is: Jesus Christ has
died for the sins of the world and paid the penalty for them so that God
is fair and just to forgive us our sins. In terms of salvation, before
the cross believers received this forgiveness "on credit", so to speak
(Rom.3:25), which now we receive on the basis of faith not in a promise
yet to come but in the cross as a completed reality (Rom.3:26). After we
are saved, we are forgiven our sins when we confess them (1Jn.1:9). That
is a very needful thing for us to maintain our fellowship with the Lord,
and, sad to say, an underappreciated thing in the church-visible today.
After all, in the Lord's prayer we are told to ask for just such
forgiveness on a blanket basis every day (Matt.6:12; Lk.11:4); so how
much more so should we not confess whenever we are aware of any error?
And sin is a much more complicated and ubiquitous problem than most
believers today (especially legalistic ones) seem to have any idea. In
Paul's list in Galatians 5:19-21, for example, a good number of these
examples of "works of the flesh" are sins of the tongue and of the
heart, sins of talking and thinking rather than of doing. Even if we
keep our hands clean and our mouths shut (the latter being very
difficult: Jas.3:1-12), no one can completely control their thoughts so
as to be able to avoid mental sins for very long, certainly not for an
entire day, unless possibly if in a coma (Jer.17:9;
see the link).
"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
Matthew 6:14-15 NKJV
Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven."
Matthew 18:21-22 NKJV
"Then summoning him, his master *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. ‘Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ And his master, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he would repay all that was owed him. My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."
Matthew 18:32-35 NASB20
"And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses. “But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."
Mark 11:25-26 NKJV
"Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."
Luke 6:37 NKJV
So watch yourselves. “If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. Even if he sins against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.”
Luke 17:3-4 NIV1984
Everything in the Bible is true, but since all of the quotes above come
directly from the Lord, it is fair to conclude that this point of the
need for to forgive others – and the consequences for refusing to
forgive – is of the greatest importance.
Believe me, I well understand how things others have done to us in our
lives may grate on us and be impossible to ever forget, but in terms of
forgiveness, our Lord's "marching orders" are unmistakably clear. So can
it really be the case that we prefer holding onto our anger more than we
fear Him? That is a very dangerous place to be, spiritually. A person
would have to harden their heart against these truths – or never read
the Bible or listen to good teaching – to not understand the dangers of
cherishing "non-forgiveness" in one's heart.
What does it mean to forgive? It doesn't mean forgetting because that is
not possible. But it does mean NOT cherishing our grudges, NOT mulling
over past offenses continually, NOT looking for opportunities for
revenge, but instead "letting it go" in our hearts.
We know that the Lord died for the sins of whomever abused us and wants
all to be saved – including those who abused Him. So we also should want
the same thing. If said person ever becomes a believer and moves forward
spiritually they will, no doubt, feel plenty bad about the terrible
things they did to us. That should be more than enough for us.
Meanwhile, we turn them over to the Lord, understanding – or at least we
SHOULD understand – that He is able to vindicate us and our cause much
better than we could ever dream of doing. And that should be good enough
for us too.
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Romans 12:19-20 KJV
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #16:
I try and try to let go and forgive, but I never seem to be able to
truly release the contempt I have towards these people over what they
did...even knowing what the Bible says about all this, I can't seem to
stop eventually coming back to what they did and having hate towards
them for it. How do you handle this Doc? Maybe how you do it could help.
Please pray for me. I plan on getting a job sometime after we move this
summer, and I've done some very dumb things that might make it hard for
me to be accepted. I may even get in trouble in they find out about some
of it. Pray I'll be safe and that I'll get through it
Response #16:
I do pray for you and will say a prayer about the job issue.
In terms of forgiveness, you don't have to "like" people who've wronged
you or pretend it didn't happen or pretend you're OK with it.
Forgiveness is telling God you forgive them and then NOT fantasizing
about revenge or plotting it or taking action on it. Forgiving evil
people is forgetting about them and putting them in God's hands, praying
for their repentance and salvation – because if they allow God to change
their hearts, all is well for us all. And if they don't – and evil
people usually do not change – then putting things in God's hands is
best from that point of view as well:
Do not gloat when your enemy falls; when they stumble, do not let your heart rejoice, or the LORD will see and disapprove and turn his wrath away from them.
Proverbs 24:17-18 NIV
Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”
Romans 12:19-20 NKJV
So forgiveness is the only route for followers of Jesus Christ: 1) we're
commanded to do it (not to do what other people think is forgiveness,
getting all emotional or seeking out those bad people, not at all),
namely, tell God we forgive them and then forget about them after we've
prayed for them; 2) in doing this we put them under God's scrutiny – and
He will "take care of it" for us if we do that; and 3) if we fail to do
the above, we are really only harming ourselves because our lack of
forgiving them does NOTHING to them – but it does corrupt and damage and
hurt us in many insidious ways: living for vengeance and in hatred makes
for supreme unhappiness and makes true spiritual growth virtually
impossible.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #17:
Hi Bob,
Thanks for your prayers, they are always appreciated and very much
needed! I started to really make a concerted effort to pray for my
enemies and those who had harmed me throughout my life. It’s been a few
years now and I find that I no longer have resentments and anger towards
those people. Amazing how that works, I wish more people would do it.
Again, I hope that your position at U of L is going well and if you are
close to retirement, I pray that the transition is smooth.
In Jesus Christ,
Response #17:
That is great to hear, my friend! Yes, I've had many conversations with
individuals who have twisted up their entire lives, hamstringing
themselves, out of anger about the past. This is never good. We are
supposed to forget what's behind and press on to what is ahead. If we
are looking backward at past grievances, it is very difficult to be
moving forward with the Lord and looking forward to New Jerusalem.
As to retirement, that is a very doubtful proposition. Blessedly, the
Lord is helping me continue with this job, and I'm very grateful for
that.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #18:
Doc...you tell me to "just do it" when it comes to forgiveness, but believe me when I say if I could forgive such things, I would have. I understand you say it's not easy either though...do you think this will require a full commitment to moving forward spiritually? I literally came right to the brink of apostasy once because of the sheer rage at God that ensued from my realization He would want me to forgive someone who __ me, and utterly destroyed my psyche most likely completely beyond repair in doing so...As you can imagine, I have some extremely severe issues when it comes to this.
Response #18:
That is awful! I'm very sorry to hear it.
Most people don't understand the "forgiveness" principle. We don't have
to "like" what others may have done to us, nor to we have to forget it;
we don't have to have anything further to do with such people or forgive
them verbally. We are supposed to turn the matter over to the Lord. THAT
is the point. We are supposed to forgive them and hand them over to Him
to deal with. And, believe me, if they have something coming, He knows a
lot better than we do how to repay them so that they feel it and know
it. God does a better job of repayment that we could ever do.
So don't nurture hostility and anger against others – and certainly not
against God. Instead, trust Him to bring about justice. By forgiving
others in prayer to Him, we get out of God's way. But if we want to
cherish hostility and vengeance, we are essentially letting others off
the hook with God – and severely damaging ourselves, because we DO need
His forgiveness, but that will not be forthcoming if we refuse to put
the issue in His hands by forgiving them (Matt.6:12-15; 18:35).
Do not say, “I’ll pay you back for this wrong!” Wait for the LORD, and he will avenge you.
Proverbs 22:20 NIV
Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12:19-21 NKJV
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #19:
Thank you Robert. I am truly thankful for you
It's not that I don't want to say. I read things on Ichthys and then
follow links to other links and end up somewhere else. I think it was a
Q and A and someone asked a question (I don't remember specifically) but
your answer was talking about committing sin and eventual apostasy. But
I can't remember the specific question.
I am not sure how things are going. I try to talk to him about it but he
doesn't disclose what he's discussing with his counselor. I pray
regularly and try to talk to him about it. It's very painful.
I asked you to pray because I am trying to get peace regarding my past
failure with the Lord. I know we have discussed this a few times and I
re-read your emails because I believe they speak the truth
But I struggle mightily with having seen and embraced the beauty of the
Saviour and then walking closely with Him for a few years then returning
to the vomit of previous sins and the world so many times as 2 peter
says. I have a hard time accepting God's forgiveness or even being sure
He is offering it to me still after that. I mean a really hard time. I
can't seem to forget all the sins and put them out of my mind.
I know saving faith is belief AND personal trust that Jesus died for all
YOUR sins. Does that mean I do not have saving faith? Should I just know
inside that they are forgiven? Could it be that I'm having a hard time
accepting that forgiveness because God isn't granting me that gift?
I fluctuate between being able to grasp it and not. Does that mean I'm
doomed? Repeatedly wallowing in pig slop sins of the previous life is
worse than the brief denial of Peter is it not?
I can't seem to get past the deep shame and regret of having not been
faithful to Jesus with so much sin in my life. I really, truly am sorry
to God and want to be forgiven and restored
Im sure I'm testing your patience (though not deliberately) and am
probably on your last nerve. You have been a good friend and more help
than probably anyone I know. I read and reread your emails and posts.
I truly do believe but I can't seem to find peace that God has forgiven
even these sins. It's not that I don't believe he can forgive them or
that Jesus sacrifice wasn't enough (I definitely don't think that). I
just can't seem to get past it and find peace in it. I cant figure out
why im stuck on this. Im always receptive to anything you have to say
and any input you have.
Your friend,
Response #19:
I'm keeping ___ in prayer.
If you want the details on apostasy and the sin unto death, the best
place to look would be in
BB 3B at the link where the subject is discussed in full detail.
You're certainly NOT alone in having a hard time dumping the past. I
know you are a football fan. Don't watch sports much at all myself
anymore (time is an issue), but I do remember one time someone saying
that "to be successful, cornerbacks need to have deliberately bad
memories", meaning, of course, that even the best of the best in that
position is going to have a TD scored against them from time to time . .
. and when that happens, if they can't just forget it and move onto the
next play, it's likely to happen again real soon.
Paul tells us that we need to always be "forgetting those things which
are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead"
(Phil.3:13) – and it's the same sort of thing as in the example above.
If a believer is looking back at past failure he/she will inevitably NOT
be doing "right now" what it is he/she should be doing: walking with the
Lord in peace, growing in joy in the Word of God, moving into a ministry
to help others – so as to win a good reward that pleases Jesus Christ.
And if ANYONE knew the truth of that it was the apostle Paul. Whatever
you or I or any other Christian has done in the past – and we ALL have
things in our past which we regret and upon which we could easily fixate
in grief if we let ourselves do so – Paul clearly had done worse,
actively and aggressively persecuting the people of God, the Church of
Jesus Christ.
David was disciplined for his murdering of the man whose wife he stole,
horrifically so, but we see no evidence that he ever let this mistake
stop him from moving forward. To the extent that we allow the evil one
to play on our guilt (his favorite trick), we are taking ourselves out
of the fight. That doesn't do us any good and it also deprives our
brothers and sisters of the help they could be receiving from our
ministering to them according to our gifts once we grow to that point.
Did Jesus die for whatever we have trouble letting go of? Amen, He did!
Have we been absolutely forgiven whatever we may have done when we
confessed it? Amen, we have! It's fine to realize we made awful mistakes
so that we are doubly determined not to make them again, but fretting
over the past which CANNOT BE CHANGED does not anyone any good – and
actually does us great harm. So take my advice and forget it. God gives
you today one day at a time. Take advantage of that. Don't waste it by
looking back at yesterday.
Jesus has forgiven you. Time to forgive yourself . . . and move on.
Keeping you in my prayers, my friend.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #20:
Hi Robert, I read 'apostasy and the sin unto death'.
So, how can I tell if I'm an apostate? If my sin was in the manner you
described? I.e. how would I know?
Response #20:
You read it? If you'd paid careful attention to it, you'd know that apostasy is NOT about sin. Its about total loss of faith. If you believe, you are a believer. An apostate is a non-believer who, unlike you, no longer cares. Believers are saved; only unbelievers are not saved.
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
John 3:18 NIV
So re: "how would I know?": if you believe in Jesus Christ, you are
saved. You know this "by faith".
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #21:
No, I see that. Yes I read it. I was referring to the sin OF apostasy. You say several times that sinning causes the sin of apostasy. But someone struggling with or even has doubts about whether Jesus has forgiven a large amount of sin/failure after commitment to Him is someone who isn't sure they're trusting Him to forgive that failure. Isn't that a lack of saving faith, or apostasy, or a type of apostasy? That's what I meant.
Response #21:
There is no "sin of apostasy". Apostasy is a condition/state – the
condition/state of no longer being a believer in Christ on account of
rejecting/putting to death the belief in Christ the person once had.
The "unpardonable sin", if that is what you are referring to, is the sin
of refusing to believe in Jesus Christ. Believers by definition cannot /
do not commit that sin. You are a believer in Jesus Christ NOW. So you
are NOT an apostate, by definition.
The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever; he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us. As a father has compassion on his children, so the LORD has compassion on those who fear him.
Psalm 103:8-13 NIV
If any hint of doubt or any momentary failure damned us then we would all be damned. But what does scripture say?
(31) So what shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? (32) He who did not spare His own Son, but handed Him over for our sake, how will He not also graciously give us everything [we need] along with [that gift of] Him? (33) Who will [dare to] bring charges against God's elect? God is the One who is pronouncing [us] justified. (34) Who is he that condemns [us]? Christ Jesus is the One who died [condemned in our place], and the One, moreover, who was raised from the dead [for us], who is [seated] at the right hand of God, who is also making petitions on our behalf. (35) What will separate us from Christ's love? Tribulation? Or privation? Or persecution? Or hunger? Or destitution? Or danger? Or violence? (36) As it is written, "For your sake we are being put to death all day long. We were accounted as sheep for slaughter". (37) But in all such things we are decisively victorious through Him who loved us [enough to do what He did for us]. (38) For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, neither angelic nor human authorities, neither things present nor things to come, neither heavenly powers, (39) be they the highest [of the elect] or the lowest [of the fallen], nor any other created thing [on this earth] will be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:31-39
In Jesus,
Bob L.