Question #1:
Thank you again. I will do as you say and take it day by day; the only reason I
fear is I've fallen away before and I feel so close to the Lord right now I
don't want it to happen but I understand to just take it day by day and I can
feel the spirit growing; vile thoughts are less; my mind is on heavenly things;
I read that same verse this morning before you sent it to me.
I have questions about that as well if you find time to answer I was married
young; I cheated she cheated we divorced; I've been with my fiancι for many
years. I know adultery is grounds for divorce and I know I greatly love my
fiancι as she is a believer as am I but I don't want to enter into a perpetual
sin of adultery. If I marry is that the case? She has never been married. I just
want to please God and I'm worried that to marry her which I thought would be
the right thing to do might be bad? I'll try not to ask anymore questions as
you've helped so much already again thanks to God bless and much brotherly love
to you!
Response #1:
You're very welcome, my friend.
Apologies on the marriage question I don't think that email got
through to me as a separate email (but I do see the question down in the
message chain).
I will give you some pertinent links, but the bottom line is that there
is no such thing as a "permanent state of adultery" for a man and woman
who are legally married. There are times when marrying someone may be a
sinful act the act of doing so, that is. But once it's done, it's
done, and it shouldn't be undone if possible. My synopsis of the
biblical guidance on marriage (details to be found in the links) is as
follows:
1) Don't get married if you can help it.
2) But if you do get married, stay married.
3) But if you do get divorced, stay single.
4) But if you do get remarried, stay married.
This is not to say than indulging in any of the "buts" is not
necessarily a sinful thing to do. It may very well be, and we ignore the
Lord's authority and guidance on this matter at our peril. After all,
it's not just a question of divine discipline for doing something that
displeases Him (although there certainly is that factor to consider),
but the rules on marriage are given to us as they are for our own good.
For example, if we marry an unbeliever knowing it's wrong for a believer
to do so, we will have to deal with the unhappiness and stress that
comes from worrying about someone we love's eternal future unless and
until he/she converts (no guarantee of that). And there is also the
point that what is most important to us in this life will be of no
importance to our spouse that causes heartache and trouble, especially
in regard to children.
The above is just one example. Marriage has enough problems and troubles
of its own in any case (e.g., 1Cor.7:28ff.). We add to them
exponentially if we violate the rules. But that does not mean that we
should end a sacred commitment once we have taken it on. That would be
compounding our error for the wrong reasons (if what is motivating us is
misplaced guilt about incorrect interpretations of e.g., Matt.5:32). You
cannot cancel out a wrong by doing another possibly greater wrong. Once
married, however we got there, we should stay married if at all
possible. Sometimes it's not possible, of course, for our spouse has a
vote too. I think of the example of David and Bathsheba. David committed
adultery with her and then had her husband murdered to cover his tracks.
That was a horrible combination of sins and David was made to suffer
horribly for them (fourteen years of discipline wherein one son murdered
the other and came near to deposing and killing his father) and yet
God did bless the marriage even so. The Messiah comes from the line of
David through Bathsheba and their son Solomon.
In terms of your particular situation, you are "not married", so it's
always better to "stay as you are" (e.g., 1Cor.7:8), but most of us are
not "gifted" to do so (1Cor.7:7), and "if you marry, you have not
sinned" (1Cor.7:28), provided you have the right to remarry, and
adultery on the part of the spouse is the exception our Lord mentions at
Matthew 5:32.
Here are those links:
Divorce and Remarriage: What Does the Bible Say?
Christian Divorce and Remarriage II
More on Divorce and Remarriage
Yours in our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
Bob L.
Question #2:
Thanks again for the quick response and caring position on your answers. I've been with her for many years and have step kids whom I love as my own and also have grandkids from my step children. I know she is a believer as am I and wish to grow together with her. I've made amends with my ex wife and do feel bad that I did wrong and have expressed that to her. However, I do feel at now I should marry and not burn. For so long thought that asking God to see us as married meant that we were, but I do believe it prudent to have a church wedding as I do desire to do things right. We both are looking forward to breaking the bonds that have ensnared us, loving the Lord more and more each day. I feel that I've built a family already so to remain unmarried would be very hard. I will continue to search the Lord on all matters as I don't want to fall away and do wrong. I do appreciate all your correspondence to me and I will pray for you in all my prayers as it's the least I can do for my brethren. Thanks so much and brotherly love to you dear brother
Response #2:
You're most welcome, and thanks much for your good words and especially for your
prayers.
I do promise to say a prayer for you about all this.
One thing I should mention: marriage is a civil institution created by God for
the entire human race. So there's no particular benefit to a church wedding
(nothing wrong with it either). What matters to God is the actual marriage (as
defined by the civil authorities of the place and time).
Feel free to write me any time, my friend.
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #3:
Hi,
I have read several of your articles on remarriage but have not seen an in depth
discussion on these 2 areas:
1 ) the role of porn in the breakup of a marriage.
2) the abandonment (refusal to support a Christian wife) of a Christian husband
after long marriage: abandonment and no support for several years then asked for
divorce.
My dilemma: when my Christian husband asked for a divorce I agreed based on
number 2 but then found out number 1 had progressed to online foreign sites
asking for indecent pictures (lest you think otherwise he had been involved with
porn from teenage years but I didn't know when we married, and he is still
involved to this day on these foreign sites, having gone thru all his money). So
we divorced. I still feel even today God was protecting me from further damage
with his porn addiction. I later remarried a Godly man but he passed away and
now I am engaged to marry another Godly man. I believe God is blessing me for
staying faithful in loving Him and seeking His Will above all.
I know what the Bible says about divorce and remarriage...after prayer and
study...I based my agreement to #1s request for divorce on the scripture that
says if a man doesn't provide for his own family he's worse than a heathen. I
believe God allowed me to remarry in His Grace because #1 had slipped into
unbelief. I know he didn't pray about this or about changing because he didn't
believe in prayer as God didn't answer his prayers so he said. I prayed
diligently regarding marrying a second time and felt only peace and joy and I've
seen the way God has made provision for me through that marriage. I still feel
blessed God gave him to me, even for the brief time he was in my life.
My questions: was my reasoning valid in #1s divorce? I've read articles that say
yes and others no. I'm confused, yet I've seen God at work in my life...and
concerned, yet I have peace. Still and all, I know I'm sealed but I know I don't
want to disappoint Him or disobey. Yet I enjoy being married.
So can I scripturally get married again? Your take on this?
Thank you
Response #3:
Good to make your acquaintance.
I will give you my opinion, but please understand that it is a personal opinion
only. This is one of those things that only the person in question can hope to
be able to figure out correctly with the help of the Spirit, prayer and
consultation of scripture. It seems to me that you have followed that godly
procedure to come up with your answer already and are merely looking for some
sort of confirmation. That is not a bad thing to do; however I feel the need to
point out that there are many ministries and ministers out there, especially in
cyber-space, who have a warped and legalistic views on this (and many) subjects
and who would have no problem giving you (what I would consider) the exact wrong
answer just to satisfy their own self-righteous views. The bottom line is that
if you ask this question enough of enough "Bible teachers", you will find plenty
who will tell you the wrong thing. What I'm going to tell you is my opinion
based on what you've shared with me (I wouldn't call it "the right thing" but
I'm convinced it is not "the wrong thing"). I have even bumped into some
so-called ministers who counsel people to divorce and destroy a perfectly happy
marriage because in their twisted view it is "in a state of adultery". That is
of course not only ridiculous but an impossibility (as you no doubt know from
reading some of the articles at Ichthys); yet misplaced guilt is a powerful
negative emotion and causes people to do all manner of crazy and ill-advised
things.
The fact that you are clearly from the tenor and tone of your email
comfortable with your decisions, speaks volumes to me. It means that having
approached these problems in a godly way, you are confident in the Lord through
the Spirit's guidance and illumination of the scripture about what you have done
and what you are intending to do. That is the main thing. We need to act out of
faith (Rom.14:23; cf. Jas.4:17). If you are acting in faith, as it seems you are
(and were), then there is nothing that can said against that correct procedure.
If I had a close friend or relative whose spouse abandoned her, I would
certainly counsel divorce in every case, and I would also tell that person to
put out of her mind any notion that she had any further responsibility to the
cad who did so or that she was in any way restricted from future marriage. As I
say throughout the marriage postings at Ichthys, there are spiritual advantages
to remaining single, "but if you do marry, you have not sinned" (1Cor.7:28); and
most human beings are actually not fit to be single and do need to be married
(1Cor.7:1-2; cf. 1Tim.5:14).
Marriage is a wonderful thing, designed by God Himself as a blessing for the
entire human race. But it takes two to make a marriage. We cannot control the
free will of our spouse, and if the spouse is unwilling to stay married and to
actually be a spouse in fact and not just in name that is, being loving and
not abusive, working and not loafing, being present and not absent, etc., etc.,
then that is not our responsibility. If we are doing our part and our spouse
effectively puts the marriage to death, making that official through a divorce
is the only reasonable and rational course and I would call it godly as well.
So in my personal opinion, based upon my understanding of scripture and from
what you have told me, this verse applies: "if the unbeliever leaves, let it be
so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called
us to live in peace" (1Cor.7:15 NIV). Your first husband may have been a
believer, but a believer who is acting like an unbeliever to an extreme degree
as in this case is to be treated as an unbeliever (e.g., 1Cor.5:9-13). In any
case, the choice was not really yours, even if you "agreed" to a divorce; what
were you supposed to do? Husband #1 by his scandalous behavior and by his
abandonment ended the marriage without doubt; all the divorce did was mutually
and legally ratify that choice of his.
Situations like that one, moreover, are beyond reconciliation. It might not be
possible to get a signed and sealed opinion from the Lord or a scripture which
blasts away every doubt, but that is often the case when it comes to living life
in this world and applying general principles of the Bible to complicated lives.
We believe the truth; we honor the Lord; we make the best decisions we can in
faith and out of faith. It seems to me that this is exactly what you are doing.
Best wishes for your future happiness in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #4:
Thank you...so very much appreciated and yes, it was confirmation that I needed. May God continue to bless you and bless your ministry as He increases you in all knowledge and wisdom.
Response #4:
You're most welcome.
Best wishes on this and also for your continued spiritual growth in
Jesus Christ everything ultimately depends on that.
In Him,
Bob L.
Question #5:
Hi Dr. Luginbill,
I am in hopes that you are well and the new school year has started with
ease.
Im writing this for my friend who is in a relationship which seems to
have complication(s)
First to explain that she was in a relationship for about three decades
and had a son from that man who was two decades her senior.
Though they never married, he has passed over two years now.
The man she was with had a son back in high school and that son is the
same age as her.
Now that man and she are having a relationship
they are very much into
each other
Is this relationship ok to have? Should they fall in love and want to
marry, would this be ok in Gods eyes?
Oh my goodness, Dr. Luginbill
life sure can be difficult and filled with
surprises!
Anyway, good news for me
my son made it safely thru Hurricane Irma in
Miami.
He was safe and his apartment stayed intact AND he still has his job!!
Whew!!
God is great!
Thank you for your input to this matter.
Response #5:
Good to hear from you, my friend! Happy to hear about your son's safe
passage through Irma. My late mother and I got chased across the state
by Charlie some years back, so I have some perspective on all that.
On your question, anyone I knew who was contemplating something like you
report and asked me about it I would definitely ask them to read 1st
Corinthians chapter five VERY carefully and consider whether or not
their "circumstance" was different from the one described there.
As you suspect, when it comes to relationships, human beings are very
emotional and very vulnerable to making mistakes, so it is wisdom to
stay away from anything that even looks like it might be "trouble"
(1Thes.5:22). For example, a believer getting too cozy in "friendship"
with an unbeliever is another such situation where a person is just
asking for trouble.
This is not our business, obviously, but we can certainly pray about it.
Yours in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #6:
Dear Bob,
I was curious as to what the difference was between premarital sex and adultery,
or if they were the same thing and there was no difference between them. Other
answers on the internet generally seem to point towards there being a
difference, with adultery involving a married person engaging in activities
which are meant exclusively for their spouse, whereas premarital sex is
different wherein neither party is married.
This question came to mind after watching a podcast of sorts recently. The man
in the podcast said he considered adultery to be unforgivable (he is Jewish),
but I did remind myself and remember that there is no unforgivable sin (other
than not accepting God's gift in Christ), and that all I needed to do was
maintain my faith in God and in Christ.
It did get me wondering about the difference, though. Obviously, sin is sin is
sin, all of it is bad, but if I recall adultery is considered a more 'serious'
one. Again, I know both are sin, and both are bad, and to be avoided, but wanted
to see what you thought.
Response #6:
Good to hear from you.
You are correct that there is a technical difference between sexual sin
generally (in Greek this is often porneia) and adultery (moicheia).
The difference is the same as in English which also represents that
difference by having a technical term for the latter, namely, violation
of a marriage (from inside or outside) as opposed to other sexual sins
which do not do so. As you rightly suggest, all such sin is very
dangerous. Here is what Paul says about it:
Flee sexual immorality (porneia). Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
1st Corinthians 6:18 NKJV
You are also correct that the only "unforgivable sin" is that of
rejecting Christ (that is "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" who
testifies to Him). We are forgiven all sins when we confess them
(1Jn.1:9; cf. Ps.32:5), but very clearly some sins are even more
consequential than others bringing down worse divine discipline as well
as having worse natural consequences connected to them as well (as Paul
says above).
In this case you ask about, getting involved in any sort of illicit
outside of marriage sex is just asking the Lord to "wallop" you with a
big dose of discipline, and the sort of discipline which might last a
LONG time in order to keep you out of future trouble . . . because after
all this sort of sin leads to all other kinds of trouble and unintended
consequences. So porneia is plenty bad enough. But if we add to
that damaging someone else' marriage or betraying the trust of our own
spouse, watch out . . .
I'm keeping you in my prayers.
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #7:
[details omitted]
Response #7:
You're welcome.
I think you've got this issue figured out exactly right. David got
disciplined for fourteen years but it didn't keep him from loving the
Lord . . . or the Lord from loving him.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #8:
Greetings dear Robert
Thank you for accepting the extensions of some more questions. As you
know, there has been a great deal of transition in my way of approaching
things now if not all, many things around me are strange and it's like a
whole new world I'm living in, not to mention I feel like babe in all
things and since I have also adopted the policy of all things put to
scripture and leave whatever comes second behind.
It is always a great honor and privilege to hear from you sir. I have
read so much about marriage matters and I couldn't help to think that
somehow marriage "remarriage" can be some sort of tribulation blew my
mind, and that marriage doesn't bring happiness as we're accustomed to
think it is, at the same time a blessing to some but others not.
Let me go direct to my questions.
(1) is there a formula for a Christian wedding biblically?
(2) is it necessary to go through the rituals shrouded in
weddings/ceremonies?
(3) is it necessary to have a wedding blessed with the Anglican formula
or words "the I do and that sort of formality?
(4) how should a believer approach this matter of marriage "from my
perspective since I'm no longer associated with the corporate church
"denomination/local church)"?
(5) what do you think about marriage vows??
And please add my email your weekly postings of the latest materials.
Response #8:
It's good to hear back from you thanks for your good words, and
congratulations on your (obvious) commitment to spiritual growth. As to your
questions in this email:
(1) is there a formula for a Christian wedding biblically?
No.
(2) is it necessary to go through the rituals shrouded in
weddings/ceremonies?
No.
(3) is it necessary to have a wedding blessed with the Anglican formula or
words "the I do and that sort of formality?
Not biblically. Marriage is a civil legal contract, so the government is the one
to set the legal rules. Some countries / states / municipalities may require a
formal and public pronouncement of vows, but that will vary by area.
(4) how should a believer approach this matter of marriage "from my
perspective since I'm no longer associated with the corporate church
"denomination/local church)"?
Marriage is a divine invention meant for the entire human race. It is the
foundation of the essential human unit created by God, i.e., the family, and for
these reasons the Bible commands us to take marriage extremely seriously. If
anything, a believer in Jesus Christ should be even more circumspect when it
comes to the sanctity of marriage and the serious nature of it because of
his/her faith (cf. Heb.13:4).
(5) what do you think about marriage vows??
See #3. Because something is not required does not make it necessarily wrong
(especially if we understand very well that it is a cultural thing and not a
biblically required thing). So if a believing couple wants to comport with
tradition and have a traditional "church wedding" (of course there are myriad
variations on that theme), I see nothing wrong with it as long as they don't
judge others for not doing so.
And please add my email your weekly postings of the latest materials.
I have added your name to the Ichthys list, but I only use it once in a great
while to announce major new postings [n.b., the actual digital list was when my
hosting company transferred servers last winter; I may be able to reconstruct it
in the future, but I have a lot else on my plate at present].
For the weekly email postings there is an RSS subscription service to keep you
apprised. Here is the link to the subscription page:
"Ichthys RSS".
Yours in our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
Bob L.
Question #9:
[question about immigration wherein an engaged couple allowed into the country together is considered to have a quasi-married status by the government admitting them]
Response #9:
Good to hear from you. Certainly, this is up to you and not my business
to weigh in.
Out of concern for you, the one thing I would want to know clearly
before committing would be whether or not this is a binding and
mandatory circumstance. What I mean to say is, if you truly would be, by
whatever name, essentially "married" in the eyes of the state in which
you would then be living, married for all legal purposes (e.g.,
inheritance, support responsibilities, not having the right to marry
someone else without a prior divorce, etc.), the time to consider
whether or not marriage is the right thing for the two of you would
"now" would be before signing the immigration papers and committing
yourselves to that status because it sounds to me as if this situation
is a "marriage-in-all-but-name-only-included deal. It's all well and
good to be intending to get traditionally married after the fact, but
there are always reasons why intention may not become reality. If it
turns out that signing such papers will be, in effect, getting married
legally, binding legally, that is a marriage then. That is fine if now
is the time and that is the decision and the commitment. But "doing it"
for the sake of legal process when it is not in your heart to "do it"
just yet would be something I would at least want to think twice about.
You can't be married and not married at the same time.
Yours in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #10:
Greetings,
Yes, figurative uses can be abused when interpreting words in the Bible. For
example, the vast majority of professing Christians hold the view that if one of
the spouses in a marriage cheats on the other by committing adultery, the
marriage can be dissolved on the basis that figuratively, since adultery would
have resulted in stoning of the one who committed adultery in the Old Testament,
the living spouse would be free to marry someone else. In other words, the
adulterer is figuratively considered dead now in New Testament times as the
penalty of stoning is no longer applicable for adultery.
The above view contradicts the clear literal teaching of the Bible in Luke
16:18, Mark 10, Romans 7, and 1Corinthians 7. Marriage is permanent until the
death of a spouse. If one departs, the other is to: "remain unmarried or be
reconciled". With the increase in divorce & remarriage in the churches today,
and given that adultery is a heaven / hell issue (unrepentant adulterers "will
not inherit the kingdom of God." it is imperative that we as Christians
understand what adultery is according to the Bible. www.Cadz.net has a thorough
study on this topic that I think covers it Biblically.
Have you studied this issue in the Bible?
Blessings,
Response #10:
I don't see the connection between this and your previous email.
However, on this new topic, I was under the impression that salvation
was a matter of being born again through faith in Jesus Christ
(Jn.3:16-18), and that it was bestowed by grace through faith and not of
works (Eph.2:8-9). I was also under the impression that sin was forgiven
when we believed (Eph.1:7; Col.1:14; cf. 1Cor.6:11), and that after
salvation sin was forgiven through repentance and confession (1Jn.1:9;
cf. Ps.32:5).
Also, I have not read in the Bible anywhere any command to divorce
(whatever the circumstances), if that is what you are counseling. It is
a very dangerous thing to go beyond what is written (1Cor.4:6),
particularly when such advice would destroy a marriage (whatever you
personally may think of it) and also may have the potential of
destroying many other lives as well.
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies and whatever is similar to all these things. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
Galatians 5:19-21
The phrase in bold is often overlooked. Paul adds it deliberately to
cover whatever sinful conduct of heart or tongue or hand he has not
mentioned that may apply in particular cases; in other words, this
principle applies to us all.
In Jesus Christ in whom alone we have salvation by grace through faith.
Bob L.
Question #11:
Greetings,
If a man or woman (though divorce attorneys & civil court judges) puts away the
God joined spouse and marries another, the Bible refers to that 2nd marriage as
adultery: "so then if while her husband liveth she be married to another man,
she shall be called an adulterous."
If I steal someones car, what does repentance mean for me regarding that sin?
Does it include returning the car or just confessing and being sorry?
Are we to define whether someone is married by civil government laws or God's
Word, the Bible?
Blessings,
Response #11:
Women are not cars, nor are they property (nor men either, for that matter).
Also, You are quoting Romans 7:3 in the KJV version, but are doing so out of context. Here is the verse immediately preceding (emphasis added):
For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth;
Romans 7:2 KJV
This passage applies to those under the Law of Moses. Surely you know, however, that Paul is directing a good part of his arguments in Romans against those who are insisting on keeping the Law and trying to make others do so as well. The very point of the passage you quote is not to discourse on marriage but to show that we are "dead to the Law" of Moses as Paul says in the very next verse after your quotation:
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Romans 7:4 KJV
When you use this passage to tell others who are married to divorce because of the Law, you are actually putting yourself in direct opposition to what this passage teaches: for we are no longer under the Law as believers in Jesus Christ it's the whole point of the passage and the context, namely, that we can be under the Law or we can belong to Christ but NOT both, because we can only be married to one husband at a time:
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Romans 7:6 KJV
This is not a simple issue. I have seen people try to make it simple,
but it is not. Even our Lord does not suggest it is simple:
1) Our Lord gives an exception allowing divorce at Matthew 5:32; 19:9;
and while there is much debate about what constitutes this porneia
exception, in Greek the word covers ANY sort of illicit sexual behavior
being rather a larger than a smaller area of sinfulness (i.e., the same
word is used in 1Cor.6:18 where it clearly covers much more than
technical adultery). Please note also that He does NOT say (anywhere),
nor does the Bible say (anywhere) that in such cases covered by the
exception it would be wrong to remarry. So in some cases where there
has been any sort of porneia remarriage would certainly not be
prohibited.
2) Our Lord actually says that it is the act of entering
into wrongful marriage under the Law that constitutes adultery,
not that the fact of being married thereafter or
having relations while married if the marriage doesn't follow the
precepts of the Law is adultery (as some would have it). Also,
importantly, Romans 7:3 does not say "marriage" as the KJV
and some other versions wrongly suggest. In fact, the situation is
entirely the opposite. The passage is talking about adultery per se:
"being with another" WITHOUT being married to him. The word "married" is
NOT present in the Greek of that verse (the versions have interpreted
the Greek wrong by adding something not there); so that verse cannot be
used to suggest that a person can be married and commit adultery with
the person with whom they are married. That is nonsensical on its face
in any case, and it is not supported by any scripture in any way
(certainly not this one).
3) Our Lord also does not instruct the Pharisees who have
wrongfully divorced their wives without cause to now divorce their new
wives and remarry their old wives. If your position is correct, that is
a very strange omission inasmuch as nowhere else in scripture is such a
procedure even discussed. What our Lord has done is to show the
Pharisees that they were wrong and were hypocrites and sinners. But a
new wrong (divorcing the present spouse) would not solve an old sin
(only God can forgive sin in any case), and would only result in new
heartbreak and trouble. So our Lord does not counsel it. And you do?
I do not defend remarriage. I always give the scriptural guidance that
we are all better off single, and if we are married that we ought to
stay married (see previous links for voluminous commentary). That is the
opposite of what I am hearing from you since you are counseling
divorce and I find it troubling. Telling people that this is a simple
issue when our Lord did not do so, and telling them to divorce when
neither He nor any of His apostles ever did so is taking things far
"beyond what is written" (1Cor.4:6), and in a non-biblical direction
which contradicts scripture on many points (see prior links).
"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you."
Matthew 7:1-2 NKJV
To over-simplify a complex issue to the point where what the Bible actually says is overturned, is false teaching. That is bad enough. The thought of counseling others to do something so terrible that it may destroy their lives, the lives of their children, and those of others as well something which the Bible never commands makes my hair stand on end.
Who are you to judge anothers servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
Romans 14:4 NKJV
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #12:
Greetings,
Yes, it is not a simple issue. Because it is a salvation (heaven or
hell) issue, it is needful to rightly divide the word of truth in
understanding God's will in the matter.
As Christians, we are to judge righteous judgment. Jesus includes it as
one of the weighty matters of the law: But woe unto you, Pharisees! for
ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment
and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the
other undone. Luke 11:42.
It is an act of love to rightly judge these adulterous marriage
situations within the body of Christ, and to work & pray for
reconciliation of covenant spouses. "Do not ye judge those that are
within?" Are children's lives ruined by their parents forgiving one
another? Children see the gospel picture lived out clearly when parents
reconcile. One current situation in Ohio comes to mind as I write this.
A lady who was divorced by her husband (and he married another woman),
is now seeing her husband returning to her. This has been a blessing to
their son who continues to show interest in following Jesus.
The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her
husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only
in the Lord. 1 Cor. 7:39. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also
loved the church, and gave himself for it; Eph. 5:25. Christ died for
the church (made up of both Jews and Gentiles). His New Testament
marriage rules apply to both.
Blessings,
Response #12:
I am a bit dismayed by your opening statement.
In short, I'm concerned about your salvation. When you wrote me
last time that this was a "heaven or hell issue", I attributed that to rhetoric
and emotion. But now it seems you firmly believe this?
Let me ask you this, and it is simple. How are we saved? Is it "by grace through
faith" or is it "by works"?
Here is what I read in the Bible:
(8) For you have been saved by [God's] grace through faith [in Christ]; and this (salvation) did not come from you it is God's gift. (9) Nor did it (i.e., salvation) come from what you have done, lest anyone should boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9
And . . .
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18 NKJV
This is a bedrock issue, a make or break issue, a true "heaven or hell" issue, because those who believe in Jesus Christ for salvation are saved, but those who rely on working their way into heaven are lost and condemned because they have relied on their own efforts and not on the grace of God in Jesus Christ.
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:4 NKJV
I don't know anything about your background so now I am wondering if you are
Roman Catholic. This issue is "hot" nowadays in the RC church, I understand, and
the position you are defending is straight along RC lines, so perhaps I have
been laboring under a mis-impression. They believe that "I am living what I
consider a good life (regardless of faith) so I will go to heaven" or "You are
living what I consider a bad life (regardless of faith) so you will go to hell".
That is the very definition of salvation by works, and the irony is that things
are the exactly other way around (as long as the "you" person has faith in
Christ).
I have known many RC's in my life and they have been better-than average good
folk for the most part, salt-of-the-earth good neighbors, good citizens, good
Marines, good friends. But not saved. At least that is what every RC who has
ever escaped that religion and come to put the truth before everything else has
told me. Why? Because it is a religion of works which seeks to earn God's favor
by "doing things" (penance, charity, membership, obedience, rule-keeping,
mass-taking, etc., etc.), and by doctrine eschews the precious sacrifice of
Jesus Christ as alone sufficient for salvation, forgiveness and fellowship with
God.
If I am wrong about the above, no offense meant. But there is no point in
getting into the details of one particular area of life if our entire
understanding of the bedrock of the plan of God is different.
One thing I will say to you once again without getting too deep into the details
is the Bible never counsels divorce (which you are doing), never
says a marriage legally contracted between a man and woman is "not a marriage"
(which you are doing), and never advocates doing wrong to others as a means of
penance and attempting to justify it by "expanding" scriptures to mean what they
patently don't say (which you are doing).
If you think you have verses to prove the contrary I'd love to hear them.
No doubt it is sometimes wrong to marry. Indeed, it is better to stay single, we
are told (1Cor.7:1), so anyone who is married has as much reason to second guess
that decision as people who have divorced for whatever reason or remarried. And
no doubt it is better to stay single if separated or else reconcile (scripture
is clear on that). But marrying is not a sin (1Cor.7:28), with the exception of
someone who has callously divorced without justification in order to change
partners (our Lord's teaching in the gospels). And even in that later case,
though the act of marriage was a sin, there is no scripture to suggest that the
man guilty of what our Lord accuses the Pharisees of is allowed to withhold
himself from his new wife or divorce her he is certainly not allowed to
remarry his first wife, according to the Law:
(1) If a man marries a woman and she does not please him because he has found something offensive in her, then he may draw up a divorce document, give it to her, and evict her from his house. (2) When she has left him she may go and become someone else's wife. (3) If the second husband rejects her and then divorces her, gives her the papers, and evicts her from his house, or if the second husband who married her dies, her first husband who divorced her is not permitted to remarry her after she has become ritually impure, for that is offensive to the LORD. You must not bring guilt on the land which the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.
Deuteronomy 24:1-4
I could point out that the "something offensive" is translated by the Septuagint
as porneia and that is the basis for the word's use in the gospel
passages. And I could also point out that, under the Law, the woman IS allowed
to remarry (v.2 above). And finally the point of bringing this passage up is to
show that under the Law the reconciliation you are counseling and pressuring
people to accept was FORBIDDEN under the Law (v.3 above).
But this all involves intricacies of the Law, and for good reason the New
Testament does not go into them. My question is, why do you feel so emboldened
to "go beyond what is written" in this regard and as the passage above
demonstrates to actually go CONTRARY to what is written?
When you tell others to ruin their lives and the lives of others by destroying
otherwise happy marriages and attempt to reconstruct prior marriages which by
definition were problematic because they ended in divorce, taking no heed to the
well-being of the new spouses or of how either sets of children will be
negatively impacted by this unnecessary turmoil, in my humble opinion you are
treading on very shaky ground. Perhaps that is why the Lord led you to me to
give you fair warning and convince you to "clap your hand over your mouth"
before anyone takes your advice and you suffer for it (Prov.30:32).
It's fine to tell people that it's better not to marry (if they can abide
celibacy) because they will have trouble; that is biblical (1Cor.7:28). And it's
fine to tell people that if they are married it is better not to divorce that
is certainly biblical too (Mal.2:16). But unless I have misunderstood, you are
telling people to divorce (definitely not biblical) and to marry those they had
previously divorced (definitely not biblical) and not because they are unhappy
or being abused or otherwise being spiritually hindered, but only because it
suits your own sensibilities and a "private interpretation" of scripture which
does not hold water (2Pet.1:20). That is a dangerous thing indeed, and I would
urge you to change your opinion or at the very least, keep it to yourself that
you may not be judged severely for judging others and leading them into personal
and spiritual shipwreck.
In the grace and mercy of our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
Bob L.
Question #13:
Hi, I have one new question about 2 Cor 6:14. Can we have nonbelievers friends or wife?
Response #13:
Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
2nd Corinthians 6:14 NKJV
The prohibition here is against "yoking" ourselves to unbelievers, that is,
binding ourselves into legally restrictive relationships from which there is no
easy exit. That certainly includes marriage (although if we already have married
an unbeliever, that is not grounds for divorce: 1Cor.7:12-16).
Friendship with unbelievers is not prohibited:
If an unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience.
1st Corinthians 10:27 NIV
It does have the drawback, of course, that while we are confident of eternal
life, we also know that they, unless they come to Christ, are bound for eternal
condemnation. That is an uncomfortable dynamic for me, personally. Also, how
close could I ever be with someone who considers of no account what I value most
in this life?
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #14:
Hi Dr. Luginbill,
I had a person ask me about tithing today, and I gave them the answer
and was pleased that it matched yours. I am finding that you and I agree
on many topics although you are much more advanced and learned than I
am. Sir, I am having trouble being comfortable even at
non-denominational churches because they push tithing and water baptism
even though tithing is part of a defunct religion and the Holy Spirit
Baptism is what is crucial for salvation today. Do you have any advice
on attending church? I feel like even if I don't attend a church, that I
am a member of the Body of Christ as we know it states in the bible. It
seems like they are so commercial and have strayed far away from the
early Christian church. So many agendas.
I wanted to ask you about another issue other than me being
uncomfortable at church. I am a middle aged single dad of two boys. My
wife, who was an unbeliever at the time, left me and divorced me about a
decade ago because she could not take the pressures of marriage, and I
have remained unattached since. I tried to reconcile with my ex wife for
years, trying to convince her to reunite, but she just wants to remain
friends and co-parents. She truly prefers to live alone and spend time
with her mother and sisters. Recently a beautiful woman of outstanding
character, a Christian woman who I have known for more than two decades
reached out to me. This was quite a surprise since I refuse to use
social media of any kind. Anyway, she has been single for years like
myself, and I feel she may be the answer to my prayers because the
timing is too incredible and the circumstances just don't make sense
unless God is orchestrating it. So I am hoping it would be ok for me to
possibly marry her. I have asked God for his permission if she is the
answer to my prayer. But I was wondering if you could give me biblical
advice. I would sure appreciate it, because I love her deeply and she
loves my sons. I want to honor her and lead a Godly life together if God
will allow it. Like I said we know a good deal about each other already
from when we were friends many years ago. It just feel too much like a
blessing to ignore. To be honest I had abandoned the idea of ever being
with a woman again, but I have been praying, asking God if it would be
ok if I could marry again since I am lonely, and she showed up out of
nowhere in the same boat I am in. Same circumstances. Her husband left
her over a decade ago as well and she has remained unattached and does
not date.
Thank you Dr. Luginbill. I hope I am not wasting your time. I hope this
is not a trivial question. God bless you sir.
Sincerely,
P.S. I have been referring friends and folks I meet to your website. I
feel that you are correct in all of the topics I have studied thus far.
Thank you so much for making your studies available to everyone.
Take care my friend.
Response #14:
Good to hear from you.
On churches, I agree with you completely. As to advice, there is a good
deal about this on the site (latest link:
"Finding a Church - or something
better? II"), but mostly it consists of complaints similar to yours. Please
also see in this week's posting about
lukewarm mega-churches (at the link). As I often say, "Ichthys is my
church" and I've gotten to the point of making no bones about it. If you
do find a good commutable place where the Bible is actually being taught
correctly and in depth as the reason for its existence, that is a rare
jewel.
On marriage, I always first make it clear that I can only talk about the
biblical principles rather than giving individual advice. Making the
"right decision" in regard to a critical life-changing choice wherein
every emotion in the book plays into things and information is imperfect
even for those on the firing line is hard enough; it's folly for a third
party to think he/she could point in the right direction, no matter how
well-intentioned.
In general terms, I always summarize the biblical position something
like this:
1) It's better to stay single.
2) But it's better to marry than to fall into sin, and marrying is
usually no sin.
3) Once married, stay married (even in cases where there was some
problem known or unknown ahead of time, marriage is still marriage and
should be maintained).
4) If divorced, stay single.
5) If you remarry anyway (it's better to marry than to fall into sin,
and marrying is usually no sin), stay married (even in cases where there
was some problem known or unknown ahead of time, marriage is still
marriage and should be maintained).
The thing that one really has to keep in mind is what the Spirit is
telling one's conscience on this matter, and that is sometimes tricky
when it comes to a subject about which so many ill-informed would-be
theological "experts" have done their best to inundate the
church-visible with oceans of misplaced guilt. Human beings being what
we are, most of us need to be married. That being the case, being
married to a Christian who is similarly committed to the same "right
things" we are is the ideal situation. That doesn't mean we should kid
ourselves about the challenges of marriage, even "the best" of them,
however. As Paul says:
But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
1st Corinthians 7:28 NIV
As to particulars, I don't see anything personally in the situations of
yourself and your prospective bride as reported which would give me
pause. However, if there is any issue of conscience you did ask me
about this after all that is something best resolved in toto before
the fact. I certainly wouldn't let the great doses of false teaching and
concomitant false guilt being spewed out there nowadays stop me from
doing something I was convinced in my heart before the Lord was the
right thing to do.
There is lots about all this on the website but most of it has to do
with responses to people who have been afflicted by false teaching or to
false teachers themselves so I am reluctant to link it (it's easy enough
to find and I'll give you the links if you wish).
You are certainly not "wasting my time"! I appreciate your desire to be
right with the Lord on this. I advise you to continue to pray about it.
He is able to give you confidence in your decision. We walk by faith,
and we have to be solid in our faith in all we do (e.g., Rom.14:23;
Jas.4:17).
Thanks for the referrals! I promise to say a prayer for you on this.
Yours in our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
Bob L.
Question #15:
Dear Dr. Luginbill,
This was the most articulate, thoughtful, and biblically sound advice I
have ever received on this question. I am truly grateful. Thank you for
approaching your answer from a biblical perspective and for sharing your
personal thoughts as well. I am really grateful to have met you and am
very appreciative. I thank our Lord that you have so diligently studied
His Word. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions.
I am definitely going to take the information you have given me into
account.
Sincerely,
Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ,
Response #15:
You're very welcome!
Wishing you and yours the very best and praying for that too.
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #16:
Hi Bob,
I am approximately 30 pages into an exposition of relationships and marriage for
Christians, as best as I have been able to parse them. As you have mentioned
before, this a favorite topic of Laodicean teachers -- so it is not as if there
is a shortage of writing on these things out there -- but I found myself most
dissatisfied with everything I came across, and decided to have a go at it.
We've discussed these things several times now, and those email chains have
helped a lot as I've plugged along.
I am currently working on a section dealing with exactly how one ought to go
about meeting potential spouses. Here's an excerpt:
-------------------------------------------------
Grim statistics for single Christians
If one takes the commonly quoted statistics at face value, approximately a third
of the world is "Christian." If you narrow this further by knocking out people
that have doctrine incompatible with true Biblical Christianity (e.g., Mormons,
JW's, Catholics -- religions where salvation does not come by grace alone
through faith alone in Christ alone), I'd estimate that about half of this
initial third would remain. If you restrict this smaller group to those people
that are actually serious about their faith, if we are being moderately strict
in our definition of "serious," that would cut the number by, say, a further
factor of five. This leaves us with 1/3 * 1/2 * 1/5 = 1/30th of the total male
or female population (assuming relatively equal proportions of serious
Christianity among men and women). This means that only one in every 30 people
of the opposite sex is a serious enough Christian to marry.
You may say that this doesn't sound so bad -- 1 in 30 isn't so unmanageable. And
this would be true... except the numbers I just quoted are for Christians across
all age groups. In our lukewarm era, serious Christians are disproportionately
represented among older people, particularly those over the age of 40. If we
optimistically assume that Christians between the ages of 22-28 compose 12.5% of
the Christians from above, we are now talking about 1/30 * 1/8 = 1/240th of the
total male or female population.
It gets worse. Most very serious Christians tend to get married ASAP because
they well understand the extreme pressure that singleness puts on individuals in
our sex-obsessed society. So many of the people from above will already be
married, or at least in serious relationships headed in that direction. Let's
say that only a third of the people in this already small group are actively
looking for a marriage partner at any given time. Now we're at 1/240 * 1/3 =
1/720th of the total male or female population.
Consider this: so far the only thing we are narrowing the pool with is the
requirement that potential partners be relatively serious Christians. This is
obviously the most important consideration for marriage, but not the only one.
When one factors in other things -- such as matching expectations for income,
children, who works and who stays home, etc. -- I would wager that the ratio of
acceptable to unacceptable partners is at least 1:2000 for any given Christian.
How should one go about meeting potential spouses?
Through churches and campus ministries
Churches, as a rule of thumb, get more and more lukewarm the larger they get,
and college campuses are full of Christian social groups rather than legitimate
teaching ministries.
It has been my personal observation that the majority of the red-hot Christians
of our time are primarily "outside of the camp," so to speak, following internet
teaching ministries or very small local churches that self-select to small sizes
and a lack of emphasis on advertising and marketing. This makes them rather hard
to meet in an intentional sort of way.
Through friends and family
This seems like a good idea in practice, but since it is getting less and less
common for people to stay in one place for an extended period of time, it seems
to be rather rare for pairings to actually happen in this way.
On the other hand, close friends and family are likely to know us well enough to
play matchmaker relatively effectively, so the number of relationships that fall
flat through these connections should be lower than the general average.
Through work
I do not think it is realistic for people to count on meeting another serious
Christian compatible with them in their day-to-day jobs. I'm sure it happens --
colleagues fall in love more than probably any other group of 20-somethings --
but not as much for Christians as for people with lower standards.
This will obviously depend upon your field and your coworkers.
Through bars, parties, etc.
Generally speaking, all of the places that unbelievers go to meet partners are
not going to be useful for Christians because they will be full of unbelievers
or Christians that are not very serious about their faith.
I'm not saying that serious Christians cannot meet at such places. But I would
not in any way recommend that Christians only try what unbelievers try if they
want to marry the right person.
Through typical forms of online dating
Dating websites/apps tend to attract a certain demographic of people, one
interested in seemingly everything but serious relationships and marriage.
I don't have a problem with online dating in the abstract. In fact, I think it
could be incredibly useful if done well. I have just been thoroughly
underwhelmed with what I have seen of how dating websites/apps are generally
used.
Coming up with something better
Here's the problem for many serious college aged Christians today: either being
tied to a small local church, with the number of marriageable opposites around
very low, and many of them already in relationships, or learning occurs the
internet where there is no such contact.
Campus ministries: there may be nice people in them, but very little substantive
truth being taught. No one serious about studying can possibly spend time
getting acquainted with various groups for the purpose of vetting spouses.
Most family and friends don't keep lists of single people in their minds for the
purpose of setting others up.
Peers in college may be nice people for the most part, but mostly not Christians
or at least serious Christians and so not the sort of person one want to marry
and spend the rest of one's life with.
Bars or parties: These don't seem to be particularly good places to find serious
Christian opposites.
Finally, all my research on Christian options for online dating (for example,
Christian Mingle and CDFF) has left me rather cold. Christian dating websites
seem to suffer from the same falseness and insincerity that plague their secular
counterparts, and emphasize all the wrong things.
-------------------------------------------------
I was planning on continuing on with a section about some sort of online network
among serious Christians associated with teaching ministries like Ichthys and
Bible Academy -- an online network that could provide a way to connect with
truly serious Christians for both general friendship/fellowship and for
marriage.
I thought I had asked you about this some time in the past, and after some
digging, I found your response:
Last but not least, the idea of an online community is appealing, but whenever I have considered something like this, the potential disadvantages seem to me to far outweigh the potential advantages. On the one hand, it would be a way for those interested in Ichthys to get to know each other and interact. On the other hand, well, there's nothing to prevent people from doing something like that individually or collectively quite apart from anything officially sanctioned. This ministry is all about the truth rather than social interaction. If I did set up, say, a Facebook page, it seems to me I would be responsible for moderating what was said; not only don't I have the time for that, but there are more hidden rocks and shoals here than first meet the eye. Secondly, what would prevent someone from pretending to be "gung-ho for the Ichthys ministry" and using that subterfuge to get friendly with someone else at such a site but for ulterior purposes? In sum, such a site might falsely project the idea of a safe place that was not entirely safe.
You bring up some good points (particularly regarding the distinction between
informal and "sanctioned" communities), but I'd like to discuss the idea
further, particularly as I move into getting my own internet ministry set up. I
benefitted greatly from you putting me in touch with our friend, for example,
and I can only imagine that there are other brothers and sisters out there that
would be equally happy to be able to make such connections.
What do you think in general? Additionally, what do you think of having such a
community exist, at least in part, to solve the vexing situation that single
Christians now find themselves in?
Yours in Christ,
Response #16:
Apologies in advance for the brevity. Long week, short weekend, late
night.
First, as to all of your daunting statistics et al., I have no doubt
that the Lord has just the right woman in mind for you and will bring
her into your path in just the right way and at just the right time
without you having to strategize about it at all (as long as you trust
Him and wait patiently for Him). For some things, like finding a job, of
course we need to "get out there and hustle" aggressively or we are not
acting in a responsible way. But marriage is different for exactly the
reasons that you adduce. One could go further. Even if you were
surrounded by hundred's of "potentials", 1) you couldn't know their
heart or God's will without Him making it clear (just as I expect Him
to do without that situation); 2) it would probably make things just
that much worse, you being a human being and thus unlikely to see
through the many distractions so as to notice the person whose heart was
just right for you.
As I have said before no doubt, a common phenomenon I have noted is that
many people relax and "trust the Lord" in the area of looking for work
when they ought to be hustling because looking for work is something
that can be done successfully with enough honest effort; yet they pull
out all of the stops in looking for a spouse when all such human
efforts are probably only making finding him/her less likely because
here the Lord has to be involved: many job possibilities (many of which
are godly); only one spouse (ideally).
Before we get to far off into romanticism, let's quote some scripture:
But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
1st Corinthians 7:28 NIV
So from the biblical point of view, you needed a woman? OK, the Lord
provided. It's not a sin (and it's "better to marry than to burn"), but
instead of "happily ever after" you are going to have "tribulation", and
that is in the best of marriages to the person who really was best for
you.
On the online community question, I'm even more skeptical of it today
(given events of the past few years in these media) than I was when I
first wrote these words to you. We can discuss it, if you like, but I
think that there are far better ways to spend our time.
Keeping you in my prayers on this and all things.
Your friend in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #17:
Hi Bob,
What is it in scripture exactly that lets you be so sure we aren't
supposed to play a part in finding a godly woman to marry? What about
Proverbs 18:22 ("going out and getting in a good way")? I'm obviously
not saying we should rush the process or be hasty and impatient, but it
strikes me as unrealistic to sit back and expect God to provide without
us doing any work even in this area.
To use myself as an example, I haven't gone to any church for about a
month now (I'll be going more regularly once I start teaching my class)
all of my learning is done through Ichthys and
Bible Academy, as well
as my own reading. My classes keep me busy enough that I'm not even
really getting enough sleep. Outside of my family and roommates, I
interact with few humans on a level deeper than asking how the weather
is. God would quite literally need to bring a woman to my door in order
for me to start a relationship, much less get married.
Re: tribulation in marriage, etc. -- we've been through this. I don't
think I have unrealistic expectations anymore, but I appreciate the
reminder.
I certainly don't want to take up a lot of your time having you explain
to me why you don't think internet communities are a good idea, but I
would like to better understand simply for the sake of explaining why I
won't have any of them either. Right now I'm a bit fuzzy on exactly why
they are such a bad idea -- even a list of bullet points to get me
thinking would suffice.
After thinking about it, I realized that I wasn't so much drawn to the
idea of an online community as an "address book" of sorts. Despite my
sharing of Ichthys with others, I remain the only person I know who
follows it to any great degree.
There wouldn't be any "community" except for that which was
self-organized based upon some basic information. The whole thing could
be opt-in as well, meaning nobody participated in this that didn't want
to in the first place.
Is your opinion of this idea any different?
In Christ,
Response #17:
To take things in reverse order, I wouldn't be worried about you
and having your email posted on the site. If some "nut
job" contacted you, I figure you would have enough moxie to be able both
to figure out what you were dealing with and how to handle it too.
However, consider the following scenario. I open this up as you suggest.
A young woman who is a reader of Ichthys wants her address posted and
since that is "the plan" I do so. She is contacted by some older male, a
predator (sexual or financial or otherwise) who pretends to be a "good
Christian" and interested in Ichthys et al. as well. She might be more
savvy on Facebook or have her identity better protected on Twitter
(e.g.), but because this is Ichthys she assumes (wrongly) that she is
dealing with a better group of people but in this case she has only
given away her email address and opened herself up to exploitation
because of her assumptions about who it is that frequents the site. But
the reality is that being on the internet, anyone can have access to it.
So if she is exploited in any way, perhaps I am not legally responsible
(perhaps I am), but I am certainly morally responsible.
Alternatively, some man spends a few months emailing me with questions
and gives the impression of being decent and genuinely interested in the
truth. I have some misgivings but they are not serious enough for me to
feel right about blackballing him from posting his name and email
address since that is "the plan". But he uses this address as a "fly
trap" for starting relationships of exploitation (financial or sexual or
otherwise). Again, I would consider myself responsible.
Or how about this one: two people who are not out to exploit others but
have good intentions both post and get to know each other "online" as a
result of exchanging emails. A relationship (romantic or financial or
otherwise) ensues, but later sours and creates tremendous hard feelings
(at the least); the spirituality and spiritual growth of one or both is
adversely affected. I would feel somewhat less responsibility for that
but would not consider myself completely without blame because I have
sponsored the venue. The fact that this has all taken place online and
outside of anyone else' purview means that all manner of
misunderstandings might occur which never would if person A were
speaking with person B face to face irrespective of Ichthys.
In short, while I would love to have folks interested in Ichthys get to
know one another, the sort of thing you suggest has always seemed to me
to fall into the category of "Great idea . . . forget it".
On seeking a spouse, here is my translation of
Proverbs 18:22:
He who finds a wife [and] who finds a good thing [in so doing] obtains favor from the Lord.
Proverbs 18:22
Meaning, as I interpret the verse, if you are looking for a wife and if
you find one who is a good one, that means that the Lord has blessed
you. Also, the Hebrew word matsah means something more like "come
across / bump into" more of an accident, as we might say (albeit a
God-directed one), than representing an active process of searching
through our own self-will as may be read into the English word. So I
don't find a mandate for aggressively looking here; what I find is an
indication of what I've been trying to suggest, namely, that if a person
does "find / bump into" a good spouse, that is a blessing from the Lord
and nothing that could have been worked up personally no matter how much
effort is expended. If the Lord has someone for you, but you pull out
all the stops to look for yourself, you are probably going to "find"
someone (in the English sense as the result of effort), but it might not
be the one the Lord had in mind. If He has it planned for you to bump
into Ms. Right next year, you searching this year may net an attractive
and likely seeming person, but she might be all wrong, actually, and
only complicate or even derail the plan for Ms. Right.
I don't know a single verse in scripture that might be made to suggest
that a person is in any way wrong in waiting on the Lord for help on
this issue. Just the opposite. For things that are beyond our ability or
ken, waiting on the Lord is the only answer. And after all, God looks on
the heart but we are largely incapable of doing that when it comes to
others, really. It takes a great deal of maturity and discernment, not
to mention a spiritual gift, to be able to see into or through people
even to a minimal degree. To look beyond the outward appearance of a
potential spouse and see the heart is something I doubt anyone can do
with complete objectivity with the one important exception of when
they really are talking to / looking at Ms./Mr. Right. And how can that
be the case if the Lord has not brought the meeting to pass? That is
impossible.
It's not a matter of statistics. God has someone for you. If you force
the issue, you are likely going to convince yourself that someone else
is "the person", and that will not end well.
If we trust that nothing is impossible for the Lord (and we do), if we
are willing to wait for Him to fulfill our needs in His perfect timing
(and we should be), then it will all work out. All other planning and
effort is at best a futile waste of time; at worst it may result in
substituting our plan for His plan while rationalizing that we are doing
the opposite and this will have all manner of negative effects.
Should we expend effort and planning to get a job? Absolutely. But that
is in reality an entirely different thing. We can get a job. And we can
change jobs. Of course the Lord is the One who helps us with all that
and if we exercise faith and discernment we will get the "right one" and
not the wrong one and be able to adjust down the road. But a marriage
partner is different in so many ways not least because it is a once
and for all thing and involves judgments we could never hope to get
right without His help not to mention that the level of emotion and
distraction involved makes a rational process (such as we go through in
a job search) largely impossible which is to say that we can try to
approach matchmaking as a job hunt but we are kidding ourselves to think
that can know as much as in that other case, or be as objective about it
. . . or be able to put ourselves by our efforts in the path of the
person the Lord has in mind.
I have been and promise to continue to keep you in prayer about this, my
friend. Abraham had to wait a very long time not for a spouse but for
an heir. When he listened to human-viewpoint reasoning it only made him
miserable and delayed what he really wanted; when he set himself to wait
on the Lord the Lord brought it about in the most wonderful and
miraculous way. I'm not saying you will have to wait many decades; but
if you had to wait a year or two it wouldn't be the end of the world.
The Lord has His plan for you on this. Give Him the benefit of the doubt
please.
Your friend in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #18:
Hi Bob,
Thanks for taking the time to go at this again with me. I daresay that I
have probably spent more time reading and re-reading these
relationship/marriage emails than any of the other correspondence we
have had (even some of the more complicated, theologically dense things
we've discussed). I guess it is just because the godly path here is so
different from everything we are taught to expect growing up that it's
"going down harder." It hit me tonight after reading your response that
I keep asking the same questions, already knowing the answers, but
wanting them to be different. Every time you explain the fundamental
calculus in a new or slightly different way, it gets through to me
clearly (as it is now). And then weeks go by. I feel the pressure of
loneliness and hear about how wonderful finding someone is. I see
couples around me who appear to be blissfully happy, tackling the
challenges of life arm in arm. And I'm sure there is a degree of that
going on. But I'm also sure that there are fights, and irritations, and
compromises that the world never sees. The "many troubles in life" parts
of marriage.
I shall attempt to not continue the cycle. How you have put it this time
really made a lot of sense to me.
I also see the points you make about the internet list idea. Sometimes I
forget that I'm far more discerning than the average person (not that
I'm perfect), and would never get taken in by a lot of this sort of
thing. This clouds my judgement. I was going to mention that I forgot
the "address" part of the address book (as in, ", from __-town, USA"),
but given what you've said, that seems like an even worse idea than
email alone. The longing for genuine face-to-face fellowship was the
primary driver behind me bringing this up in the first place (i.e.,
figuring out if there were any other dedicated readers of Ichthys close
enough to me to make meeting in person possible), but given the issues
you've mentioned with email, I can't imagine in-person meetings would
have any less potential for abuse (and would suspect the potential is
quite a bit higher in fact).
I suppose, in my particular case, if I have my email address on the
internet (associated with my ministry website), it will be possible for
anybody who is interested to get in contact with me.
I thought I'd inform you that I got the website up. Not too much on
there yet, but I have my plans. I have some things I would like to
discuss: [details about readers being able to post content omitted]
Thanks as always for taking the time. I'm sorry this one got a little
bit long -- I know you mentioned you were a bit buried earlier. Please
take your time.
Your friend in Jesus,
Response #18:
It's no problem, my friend. I appreciate your willingness to consider direction.
I've updated the link to your ministry.
As to the process you ask about, this seems to me to be the other extreme from
the one I came up under. My mentor Col. Thieme brooked zero disagreements and/or
pointed questions, let alone providing a venue to introduce them. I answer
questions but have the process under pretty tight control in that they don't
make it to the website immediately and without editing. Allowing users to weigh
in / make changes along the lines of Wikepedia strikes me as inviting problems,
but every ministry is different. The biggest practical question you are likely
to face in the early going, it seems to me, is that when your work begins to get
notice you will be compelled to "deal" with all manner of such input pretty
rapidly. That would be fine if it were all you were doing all day long. But if
you are still in school, still doing Bible study from another ministry, and have
or are starting a family, that might make for some sleepless nights coming at
the wrong time. So if you are going to try to do things this way, I would
suggest putting in some sort of system delay whereby you are notified of
posts/comments/corrections, but have, say, a week or so before they "hit" or
else have to physically approve them before they are posted. It's possible that
this is already the case apologies if so (I'm not familiar with this type of
website construction).
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #19:
Hi Bob,
No changes post until I explicitly approve them. So it's not really like
Wikipedia.
You didn't directly comment on me publishing "works in progress." Does
this mean you think it is OK for me to do so, as long as I follow the
precautions I outlined above?
Finally, re: marriage, I sat down and thought some more after I sent the
email last night, and still am not totally convinced that I understand
what is expected on "my end." I have a busy few weeks ahead so am going
to back-burner this for now. I trust that God will works things out. I
expect I'll better be able to formulate this once I've worked some more
on my current project regarding what the Bible has to say on
relationships, and once I have some more room to breathe and think
freely. Like I said, I really do appreciate all the time you've put in
to helping me on this score.
In Him,
Response #19:
Sounds good.
On "works in progress", I'm not a fan of that (not telling you not to do
it by any means). Here's the thing. We are working hard and studying
hard and learning all we can in order to be able to be authoritative in
what we say (cf. Lk.4:32). Putting it out there in raw form runs the
risk of making it seem as if we have a flippant attitude towards the
truth: If we know what is right, why don't we say it? If we aren't sure
yet, why are we saying it? More on this below.
Which brings me to the next point. There are two basic approaches to
serious teaching: 1) topical/ doctrinal treatment and 2)
"biblical"/verse by verse treatment. I have seen the advantages and
disadvantages of both and also the occupational hazards of both. Verse
by verse can tend to bog a person down because of wishing to teach in
detail every principle encountered moving forward which is a good
thing but can lead to, e.g., the "Peter series" lasting decades. Topical
treatment has its own hazards. If the topic is one that is pretty
clearly put forth as such in scripture, it will be self-limited to a
certain degree. But the danger for a teacher/exegete is in "going beyond
what is written" into areas and speculative indulgence where other
teachers have previously gone. So, for example, it's very tempting in
writing about election to get caught up in the whole Calvinist vs.
Arminian feud as well as digging into the R.C. mind-set that preceded
it. More profitable is to focus only on what is really in the Bible in
the verses where the subject is covered, dealing with previous
treatments only when that is necessary to refute some well-known mistake
or other.
To apply the above to your previous emails and questions, I would not be
averse to someone wanting to cover marriage or even "relationships"
biblically, but I have often remarked on how little the Bible has to say
about this topic compared to the overwhelming interest in the
church-visible and the vast and inordinate amount of attention it
receives in "church" today. Based upon what is really important in the
Bible, if I were teaching only one lesson once a week on Sunday morning,
it might well be fifty years before I got to "sex and marriage" as a
discrete topic . . . if ever. But go to any evangelical "church" on any
given Sunday morning and you stand a good chance of hearing a sermon (I
despair of saying "lesson") on family matters, marriage, romance and
etc. Why is that? Because, obviously, that is what "they want to hear"
even though that is probably the last thing they need to hear. Why?
Because 1) all "they" need to know is in the Bible in fairly unambiguous
terms (with questions easily and quickly answered for all who are
willing to listen); and 2) because hearing a sermon on
sex/marriage/romance/family as a single person is going to have me
thinking about sex/marriage/romance/family . . . when I spend WAY too
much time thinking about that anyway; but 3) it is not going to
contribute to my spiritual growth in any significant way and it may even
be detrimental in skewing my focus (not to mention that in "churches"
which are given to this sort of thing it seems to be inevitable that the
"teaching" is also usually either wrong or at least "off" in some
significant way).
If I were going to do a major posting / study / lesson on
sex/marriage/romance/family, it would be verse centered and principle
centered and would, as best as I could achieve it, avoid speculation.
Consider the excerpt you sent me in your first email in this chain. Now
that we've talked it over, I hope you can see that getting others to
focus on the statistics is going to have them thinking human-viewpoint
solutions rather than trusting God to take care of the otherwise
impossible. And that goes back to the previous question. If you posted
this as a "work in progress" it could give someone just that wrong idea
(in my humble opinion). I think from our conversation that you see that
now too. So you pull it off of your website. Problem is you have already
(in this considered scenario) had it up there for some time for people
to read . . . and make some dangerous assumptions as a result. Everyone
is responsible for their own decisions, of course, but I couldn't say
that you would be without blame for promulgating spiritually unhelpful
viewpoints if that is what even you yourself come to see them as now,
after some thought.
In other words, this is all a very serious business. Some things, as in
delivering the Word of God, benefit from thinking about it and thinking
it over for a while first privately until a man is sure in his own
heart of the absolute veracity of what he says / writes / posts (as far
as that is possible). Granted, we all make mistakes and none of us is
perfect. But in my view it's a questionable practice to put anything out
there that may be taken as "the truth" if we are not at least firmly
convinced of the substance of it. "Trying it out, trying it on" and
testing it is something we should probably best do on our own time out
of public view. It's lonely. But that's the job. And it's too important
not to do right.
Yours in our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
Bob L.
Question #20:
[details omitted]
Response #20:
Of course I would never disclose any personally sensitive or
confidential information.
As I often remark, people today view orientation as a "yes / no" issue.
That would have made any ancient Greek laugh. From their point of view,
it's more like a spectrum from zero to a hundred for both orientations,
with natural inclination altered, focused or magnified (and sometimes
stood on its head) by choice and practice. That would explain why people
"discover" they are this or that later in life: if it were always
solidly "yes/no", one would think that little discovery would be
necessary. I think that is consistent with the biblical view as well,
adding of course that some things are permitted in the Bible, others are
not.
Anyone who is unmarried is not permitted to engage in sexual activity of
any kind. That includes allowing oneself to be "attracted", engaging in
any sort of mental promiscuity - - which is also sinful (as our Lord
made clear) and a deadly precursor to the physical act. So purely (or
nearly so) heterosexual Christians who are not married are in the
precise same situation as "gay" inclined Christians (or whatever they
are or combination thereof and to whatever degree). Only a married man
and wife can engage in sexual activity without severely damaging their
(immediate) relationship with the Lord and bringing on significant
divine discipline.
This means, by the way, that 99% of what the culture bombards us with is
1) illicit, and 2) a big fat lie to the extent that "happiness" is
implied as a promise when there can in fact be no "happiness" in truth
outside of what God has provided as legitimate. There are differences
too, of course, in that most unmarried Christians may have "hope" of
marriage whereas someone who is definitely oriented same-sex has no
prospects biblically and needs to accept that with all his/her
heart. Those stuck in the middle are also in the position of being
better off embracing celibacy, because otherwise they will probably have
to be dishonest with their opposite sex partner all of their lives.
But as long as an unmarried Christian is not sinning, either in mind or
in body, the point is largely irrelevant. It only becomes relevant when
sin enters in, and some sins are more damaging and spiritual destructive
than others.
Flee sexual immorality (porneia). Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
1st Corinthians 6:18 NKJV
It is nobody's business what a Christian "is" (or thinks he/she is) and
to what degree on this topic, just as long holiness is the order of the
day. In fact, worrying about the "what am I?" question is a dangerous
thing to do. For unmarried Christians, thinking about sex in any way is
a dangerous thing to do, even if (or maybe especially if)
rationalizations lead the way. The "what am I?" question invites
thinking about sex in a subtle and deceptive way. Best advice: stop
thinking about it, stop worrying about it, stop talking about it . . .
and by all means do not do it ("it" being anything that
even comes close to engaging in anything sexual as an unmarried person).
Not to say this is easy, but victory is achievable for all those who are
ruthlessly stern with their personal areas of weakness and we all have
our share of those, so we all need to be ruthless with ourselves in one
area or another at one time or another.
It is also important to point out that we are not here on this earth to
enjoy ourselves, to "have a good life", or to "pursue happiness". We are
here for Jesus Christ, to grow, progress and serve to win eternal
rewards that glorify Him. Anything that distracts from that purpose is
better off thrown overboard; how much more is that not true of anything
that compromises it or even has the potential of destroying it.
You have a lot to offer the Body of Christ. I worry that fixating on
this issue is a sign of being under deceptive attack, and I pray for
your deliverance.
Your friend in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #21:
[details omitted]
Response #21:
As to choice/no choice, in the first instance sexual activity is
absolutely a choice regardless of inclinations, natural or otherwise.
What we "do" is always a choice, regardless of the pressure to "do it".
Those pressures differ according to the times and the culture. A near
100% heterosexual feels very little pressure if any to engage in
same-sex behavior (but plenty to engage with the opposite sex). But if
said person had lived in ancient Thebes or Sparta where this sort of
thing was a rite of passage, it'd be another story. Nowadays there is
more pressure because of politics and social engineering and advocacy
to consider this sort of behavior than was ever the case before. In
previous generations, the behavior was stigmatized. Today it is not too
much to say that it is close to being glorified. I heard one wag remark
that he gotten "gay-married", not because he was gay but for the social
justice points. That's funny because it has the ring of truth. So to the
extent that someone is somewhat tempted in this area, it is certainly
the case that all of the societal buzz and positive reinforcement for it
and legitimizing of it has made the job of those tempted to it to
refrain from it even so all the more difficult. And of course that is
true of ALL things sexual in our culture today of course; one cannot
walk down the street without being bombarded by it in adds, music,
dress, etc., etc.. Pursuing sanctification in the contemporary U.S. is
not easy for anyone these days, regardless of inclinations.
As to choice/no choice in the second instance, as mentioned, it seems to
me that we all have "inclinations", proclivities of our biology and in
this respect of our sin natures (biblically speaking), proclivities
which are not just "yes/no" but also "exactly what specifically and to
what degree" (in the same way that some are more disposed to like pork
chops than broccoli the analogy I hope relieves me of the need to list
a catalog of "kinkiness" and its multifarious variations).
This may be compared to various nascent abilities we all have. Some
people are just more naturally inclined to be good basketball players
than others. Certainly, physical characteristics are important, but size
and strength don't necessarily make a person a good shooter or a great
ball-handler. It is a certainty that if there were a way to determine
who in this country had the objectively considered "best natural
talents" for basketball, we would find that many of these would not be
in the NBA or perhaps not even in athletics at all. Talent has to be
developed and that takes input from the talented. This works in an
analogous way for the negative side of things too. If we reinforce the
bad proclivities of our nature, they will strengthen, and the ones we
concentrate on will strengthen more. Why we may choose this or that
particular sinful expression as our most "favorite" has something to do
with biology to be sure, but it is not divorced from choice, choices
made at various times and places that guided our course, things that
"happened", etc. But we were involved nonetheless: People become
addicted to alcohol by drinking it, e.g., and that is certainly a choice
even if it can come to a point where there is little free will left
for those who've gone to extremes and become seriously addicted.
The moral of the story is that a person cannot take hot coals into
his/her lap without getting burned. If that has happened in the past, as
with all sin, there is forgiveness upon confession, and dwelling on the
past is a mistake. "Thinking about it", whatever "it" is, is also always
a mistake, because even if the "thinking about it" is ruing the past,
"thinking about it" still always lowers the threshold for "doing it".
And if we have done "it" in the past (drugs or alcohol or illicit sex of
any kind or whatever sinful or harmful behavior gossiping,
complaining, hating, coveting or any chronic sin), then we have created
negative pathways in our heart which are eager and willing to be filled
up again.
In other words, to the extent that we have made bad choices in the past
regarding any sort of chronic, sinful behavior, to that extent we are
more vulnerable to this same temptation in the future because of
familiarity than if we had no experience of it. So to the extent that
we engage in any behavior that familiarizes us with any sort of chronic
sin, to that extent we are most certainly responsible. To take the
alcohol analogy again, I know many people and many Christians who have
serious problems with alcohol; I don't minimize the problem at all, and
I do realize that alcoholism is a terrible condition as is addiction of
any kind. But I dislike calling it a "disease", because that seems to me
to relieve the person of all responsibility. The decision to take the
first drink was a unforced choice as was every reinforcing decision
thereafter. And the more reinforcement, the harder it becomes to exert
any force of will to extricate oneself from the quicksand. But choice is
still choice, even when it has been hardened into place by use and prior
choice. That is the case with most behaviors in life, good, bad and
indifferent.
So the solution is to take no prisoners in our absolute no-tolerance
stance of staying away from any behavior which is damaging, especially
if it is grossly sinful. My concern is that "thinking about it",
debating it, considering it, pondering it, analyzing it, categorizing,
philosophizing about it, etc., are actually rationalizations for
"playing with it" and if we play with fire, sooner or later we will be
burned.
Yours in our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
Bob L.
Question #22:
[details omitted]
Response #22:
By "rationalization" I don't mean anything philosophical; I'm using the word in
the contemporarily understood sense (cf. Horace: usus / quem penes arbitrium
est et ius et norma loquendi) of finding "reasons" to do what we wanted to
do in the first place so as to overcome conscience and any other barriers to
doing whatever it is and attributing our submitting to our lusts in this way to
"logic".
As to the semi-humorous remark, this is merely meant to reflect the oppressively
politically correct climate we're living in where one is supposed to think a
certain way or risk being ostracized. It's not unique to us. It's hard to
understand Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia or Maoist China or contemporary
North Korea without appreciating this power of social pressure to think and act
a certain way, even if contrary to the truth.
As to past history or present behavior, I certainly haven't made any such
assumptions about you and am not at all surprised by what you affirm. The
statements I made (I checked them) were all meant to be as impersonal and
general as possible. These are the sorts of things it's good to point out to
people before they get involved in any sort of dangerous behavior whether or not
at present they're being tempted by it. Just because the world says something is
"OK" does not mean that such is the Lord's opinion and His is the only one
that counts.
As to "good", as our Lord said, "No one is goodexcept God alone" (Lk.18:19 NIV).
Amen!
Your friend in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #23:
I find your interpretation on remarriage comforting although it doesn't give me
certainty.
Idk how I stumbled on your page but I did. You see, not only am I remarried, but
I also have severe OCD. The OCD has taken on many "themes" including harm OCD,
psychosis OCD and scrupulous OCD. So with my "remarriage", I have this "double
whammy" fear of hell. One side of being OCD is constantly seeking reassurance
that I will not go to hell and the exact doctrine that teaches that remarried
people will in fact go to hell.
I'm gonna share some private things with you, tho you are a stranger, because I
am still looking for someone to give me certainty that I will not go to hell . .
.
[details omitted].
It's such a battle in my mind that I can't get free from. Please offer your
thoughts and prayers.
Thanks,
Response #23:
It's good to make your acquaintance, but I am sorry to hear of your past
troubles and your present unease.
Let me start by saying that I have known, known of, and heard of many who
professed to be Christians who suffered some disappointment or abuse often
far, far less than what you report and then abandoned Christ because of that
negative experience (comparable to the reaction of the exodus generation every
time they were tested). So the fact that you still profess the Lord after all
you have been through lets me know that you are most definitely a believer in
Jesus Christ and all believers are saved (only unbelievers "go to hell", of
their own volition):
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18 NKJV
The Lord wants everyone to be saved (Ezek.18:23; Matt.18:14; Jn.12:47; 1Tim.2:4;
2Tim.2:24-26; 2Pet.3:9). And Jesus died for everyone and suffered the price for
every single sin (1Tim.2:5-6; Heb.2:9; 1Jn.2:2; cf., Matt.20:28; Jn.1:29; 12:47;
3:16-17; 2Cor.5:19; 1Tim.4:10; 1Jn.3:5). Why would the Father, who wants all to
be saved, who sacrificed His Son so that all could be saved, kick someone out of
heaven for some "sin" which Jesus has already paid for? In fact, the only sin
Christ could not die for was the horrendous sin of rejecting the Gift of all
gifts, rejecting Jesus Christ.
Since you eagerly accept Him, since you desire to be with Him, that is another
clear indication of what we both know to be undeniably true: you are a believer
and all believers go to heaven, not hell. Hell is the place where those who
have no wish to have any part of God, who have no desire to submit themselves to
Him by accepting the Son of God, go to get their wish: an eternity without God.
We believers, on the other hand, deeply desire to be in Lord's presence for all
eternity. There can be no clearer distinction between these two groups and you
and I belong to the latter, those who will live in the New Jerusalem with our
dear Lord forever.
The next point is the critical one for practical concerns. You are married.
There are times that it is impossible to stay married. If the other party is
unwilling to continue in a marriage, the marriage is over, and a legal divorce
is merely making official what is already the case (cf. 1Cor.7:15). In the
passage cited it says (NKJV): "if the unbeliever departs, let him depart". Given
what you reported, it is hard for me to accept that your first husband was a
believer in Jesus Christ, and his behavior towards you was certainly of a type
which is in my interpretation of scripture equivalent to "departing" by making
it impossible for you to stay without being destroyed (so who it is that
physically departed is a distinction without any real difference in such cases).
Likewise, even if your ex-husband claimed / claims to "be a Christian", behavior
of the sort reported is not in any way "believer behavior". If a spouse is
functionally an unbeliever and a dishonorable one at that then again we have
a distinction without a difference.
But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortionernot even to eat with such a person.
1st Corinthians 5:11 NKJV
I don't know all of the details and I do understand that no human being is
totally "innocent", but even if you objectively do not feel you had a biblical
right to divorce in the first place, please understand that "that ship has
sailed"; "that egg has been scrambled"; "that round is down range" (feel free to
supply your own metaphor of an action which can not now be undone). There is no
going back. As with all past sin, error and failure, our job is to forget it,
not dwell on it; to move on with the Lord, not look back to a past that can't be
changed (cf. Phil.3:13).
Understand too that you are now married. And a marriage is something very
important that the Lord wants preserved not at ALL costs, but at every
reasonable cost (even if it is not the first marriage: 1Cor.7:10). That is to
say, if there is a willingness on the part of the other party to continue, then
the believer should make all reasonable accommodations to do so (no change of
rules if this is a second marriage). In a case such as yours where you are
actually happy in your marriage, it would be nonsensical and definitely
contrary to all the Bible has to say for you to exit your present marriage. If
you were in any way wrong to exit your first marriage (I don't see it), or
somehow wrong to enter in upon a new one (personally from what I've read here, I
don't see that either), in any case, you are where you are NOW, not where you
were THEN.
As I always tell people, the time to agonize about whether or not getting
married is the right thing to do is BEFORE getting married. Once getting
married, you are MARRIED. At that point, the Lord expects you to stick with it.
Will you experience some negative results if you weren't supposed to get married
and did so anyway? That is no doubt the case, but that does not mean that the
Lord will not bless it anyway. David was abundantly blessed in his marriage to
Bathsheba in spite of the fact that he received a horrific dose of divine
discipline (fourteen years worth) for acquiring her in the murderous and
adulterous way he did so: the Messiah comes through her line via Solomon. Again,
I don't read anything like that in your case, but the point is that even so,
staying married is both the biblical command and the best thing practically
speaking as well . . . especially if you are happy in your marriage.
I am aware that there are all manner of false teachers out there on the
internet. I am also aware that there is a particularly pernicious set who make
it their full time job, so it seems, to sow doubt in the hearts of good
Christians who have been divorced and are now remarried as if that were some
sort of unpardonable sin. But no sin is unpardonable except that of denying
Christ. Teaching things that are not true, however, especially if they end up
destroying the lives of others, is a vile thing to do and a very dangerous thing
to do that no doubt will receive a major dose of discipline for any such who are
believers and doing so. Personally, I have my doubts that the most violent
scripture-twisters in this category do belong to Christ since most of them teach
works-salvation but we will have to wait to see whether they are cast into the
lake of fire with others who reject the Lord or will "merely" be without any
eternal reward beyond the basics, having their false works torched before the
judgment seat of Christ (1Cor.3:13). Now these "basics" are indeed blessed
beyond present ken! But we are here to do better than that, and these sorts are
playing with fire, especially in that people who listen to them often ruin not
only their own lives but those of their spouses and more particularly those of
their children.
"But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea."
Matthew 18:6 NKJV
So for the sake of your children, for the sake of your husband, for your own
sake and for the sake of Jesus Christ please put all such thoughts out of
your head. Our Lord has called us to peace (Is.26:3; 57:2; Jn.14:27; Rom.5:1;
Eph.2:14; Phil.4:7; Col.3:15; 2Thes.3:16; 1Pet.1:2), and He means you to have
and to live that peace, not to torture yourself with the lies of others.
Finally, the way to victory in struggling with anxious thoughts and the way to
victory in all things in this life for the believer is consistency in
spiritual growth. It is impossible to win anything on the defensive. Living
one's life without the consistent intake of the truth and its dogged application
day by day will never produce the peace and the joy focused on our eternal hope
or growth the Lord means us all to have. And that process of growth is what
yields eternal rewards. So I would encourage you to find a place where the truth
is solidly taught as the reason for assembly and make learning and believing the
truth the foundation of your life for Christ is that foundation, and He is the
truth, the living Word of God.
Ichthys is one such place (you are always welcome here), but I also recommend
pastor-teacher Curtis Omo's Bible
Academy (at the link).
Yours in our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
Bob Luginbill
Question #24:
Hi Bob,
God never rescinded his commandment to be fruitful and multiply, so if
one is not being fruitful and multiplying, one is breaking God's law and
in need of justice. My question is this: how do I know I won't be
punished for not getting married
Response #24:
This is a good illustration of how being apparently logical is often antithetical to being theological. I believe it was Mark Twain who said that this command you refer to was "the only one of God's decrees which mankind has ever embraced with any particular enthusiasm" (or words to that effect). True. And that should tell you something. Here is what I read in scripture:
Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
1st Corinthians 7:1 NKJV
True, Paul goes on to say that getting married is better than falling into sexual promiscuity or porneia of any sort, but he adds:
But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that. But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
1st Corinthians 7:6-9 NKJV
The above makes it crystal clear that not getting married is certainly
permissible and no sin; however, staying single when one is definitely
not cut out for it is problematic: being severely tempted may result.
Yours in our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
Bob L.
Question #25:
Honestly, I prefer the peace of chastity over the cantankerousness of marriage. I also would prefer to use it to serve God. And if we believe we shall live forever, then why should we feel a need to "prolong the lineage" anyway?
Response #25:
You're certainly right about that, but then this principle is true about
virtually everything in this life. 99% of what is done "under the sun"
is either pointless or harmful (please read the first two chapters of
Ecclesiastes).
Apart from spiritual matters, as long as we have food and clothing, we
should be content with that (1Tim.6:8). People being people, however, we
have aspirations, desire, pastimes. Family is part of that. After all,
the Lord said Himself, "it is not good for man to be alone" (Gen.2:18).
It's how we're built. So while I agree with you, I don't think we can
fault, e.g., Abraham, for wanting an heir so desperately and intensely.
If we do have spare time and energy for doing pointless things and
useless things and optional things (even if in the case of marriage and
family it just hasn't developed yet), then it is a very good
idea for a believer to spend a liberal portion of that surplus in Bible
study and in preparation for and engagement in ministry.
One of the things I have observed in life (in myself as well as
universally in others) is that one of the many gracious things God does
for us is to keep a "load on the line" lest we have too much time and
juice unoccupied as this inevitably leads to trouble. I would imagine
that marriage and family is a wonderful "load" along with a job that
sucks up most of the potential damaging excess free time and energy that
might otherwise lead a believer into trouble. So there is another side
to all this. If time and energy are free / freed up, there has to
something good to fill them otherwise something bad surely will.
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.