http://ichthys.com/ 
Sin, Guilt, and Salvation IX
Question #1:    
Hi Mr. Luginbill,

If I have a desire to be saved, that means I'm not hopelessly lost right? I am always afraid if missing out on heaven. When bad weather comes, and tornado watches, I worry about dying. I want to go to heaven. I want to believe in Jesus and never lose that.
Response #1:  
If you are a believer in Jesus Christ, you ARE saved. In scripture, where you find the word(s) believer(s), generally speaking it is the present participle and means, literally, "the one(s) believing". So faith is a living thing. Either person "is believing" in Jesus or they are not. And while those who do not believe are not saved, all believers ARE saved.
"He who believes (lit., "is believing") in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe (lit., "is not believing") is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18 NKJV
That said, the only way to gain confidence in your salvation is to grow in it through the truth of the Word of God, taking it in daily, believing what you are taught, and passing the tests you are given by trusting the Lord (see the link).
In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #2:   
Doc, so many people add turning from your sins and becoming as dedicated to the Lord as possible, often called "making Jesus Lord of your life", to the Gospel, typically calling it "the other side of the coin of faith". I agree that it would be very odd for say a serial murderer to be saved and feel no genuine godly sorrow for his sin (Paul comes to mind in this regard), but to these people "Lordship Salvation" seems to be the plain and clear reading of the texts on salvation...what do you feel about this? Sorry if I asked before
Response #2:  
People are always trying to add to the gospel. The gospel is simple enough – for us (Christ did the suffering and dying for us): "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved!" (Acts 16:31).

Adding anything to the gospel makes it "another gospel" . . . "which is really no gospel at all" (Gal.1:7). So if someone is relying on, e.g., being water-baptized, for salvation, or any sort of works, they are not saved because salvation is "by grace through faith, not of works" (Eph.2:8-9).

Here are a list of such "false issues" in BB 4B: Soteriology (at the link).

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #3:   
I have sent you this already. I corrected my story. 

My story is a sad story of almost 50 years after it started of being caught in a habitual sin that I am sorry to say lasted almost a lifetime of struggle. This sin was porn and eventually fornications. I was saved, accept Christ when I was young around 9 or 10, my mom had me wait until I was 12 to be baptized, we attended Assembly of God church. It was around 12 or 13 when I found my father's porn magazines hidden in the house. I became hooked. [omitted] I would repent, confess my sin to the Lord Jesus. It would come and go, sometimes weeks, or months, or a year, but mostly months. I hid the sin basically from my youth, ashamed, I didn’t know how to talk about it, I kept it silent. I suffered great sorrow in my life, I lost my first wife to an accident, left me with 3 young children to raise (9,10, and 12). I did. I suffered as I hid this sin, I didn’t know what to do, I remember crying many times to God, heal me save me, take this thing from me, help me. Then I hit rock bottom in my life I kind of really backslid very badly, I still believed in God, I didn’t stop, I just gave into my sin badly. I fell into homosexual activity for about 2 years. I didn’t have an attraction to men it was the porn that did or the darkness that overcame my heart. I did not want this life I was crying out. It was at the end of those two years I meet a beautiful Christian woman. We married 6 months later, I thought this was it I found love, I start going back to church I gave my life back to Christ, at least I thought I did. It was a year and half later that the porn desire came back, I don’t know how but it did, and I struggled, over the next year and it would lead to committing adultery. You might have guessed I never told my wife; I hid this sin from her, ashamed, stupid, I could not face myself. I struggled; I was Lost. Because I hid it still not telling anyone trying to deal with this on my own, I thought I could fix it, I could not. I know still adultery. I was a sick man. It was shortly after this my wife caught me looking porn. It was then I broke down, I cried and cried I told her everything I held nothing back, I never wept bitterly. I prayed asked God forgiveness with my wife. She never I suffer a problem, she was not happy, but she would stick with me and not divorce me, she still loved me. Some years later I would ask her do you ever regret marring me and she said no, no regrets. I when to a Christian consoler, I don’t think I went to a good one. I don’t know if God was very happy with my life, I struggled with my salvation. My wife was diagnosed with lung cancer after 4.5 years of marriage. The porn temporary ended, but it would happen many months apart. I really sought God, I pray, I worked even harder on stopping this addiction. During this time, I fasted, put blocking software on home computers and phone, I wanted it to stop. The only time I would have any issues is when during her cancer she would really get. [omitted]. Maybe because only my wife knew and I still hid it from telling others, kind of? I do remember the last 6 months of her life, I remember crying out to God to help end this I really feared go back to what I was before I met her, I really feared that. I very much remember asking God to break me, crush me, take everything from me, God I would ask I cannot live with the desire in my body. At the end of those 6 months my wife would die in my arms. I was broken, apparently not broken enough. I was crushed. [omitted] I remember crying to God help me. I cannot live like this. It was the 3rd time, I did it. It was actually where I felt how could God ever forgive me; I must be lost and unforgivable. There is no hope for me, God felt so far away, why should I ask him to forgive me, how could he. Something else happen a few days later I notice something different the desire for porn was gone. I did eventually in my prayer closet breakdown and ask God forgiveness, and it all came out I wept and wept and wept some more. Oh, I don’t think I told you during the last 9 months I found a very very good Abundant Life Christian Counseling Services, they help me so much, help me understand my relationship with God, I read many books to understand my addiction. I do have such a burden to help man out of this darkness I desire to tell me story to who will listen. I prayed like I never prayed before, I seek God like I never seek him before, I study Gods word like I never study before. I witness to people, hand out tracks. So, you are properly wandering why I am writing this email to you. I was studying the word of God and I came across Hebrews chapter 6, 10 and 12. That am I really saved, I did so badly willfully sins, so many 50 years of wandering in willfully sins from age 12 or 13, how could God love someone like me. So, I struggled with my faith, I brought this up with my counselor and pastor. They tried to assure me that I am not Esau. I do have a OCD a compulsive disorder and I will obsessive over things. I just don’t have peace, some days I do, others I don’t. I am really struggle with my salvation, that it's not lost. Can you help me understand where I am in my salvation?

Is God going to end my life? I have lost over 30 pounds and not only Hebrews is my issue I came across Job 33:14-30. Can you answer this letter. I really want God in my life, I pray every day, study his word. So, this is my story, a sad story, of wandering in sin. You have my permission to use this story anywhere, I like my story to be told, don’t be like me. You are welcome to edit.
Response #3:  
You are suffering from guilt, and that is not at all uncommon since the devil uses that emotion against Christians as one of his prime weapons. But the operative question you are asking here is, "Am I saved or not?"

How do we know if we are saved? We know we are saved if we believe in Jesus Christ; if a person does not believe in Jesus Christ, that person is not saved, even if they once did believe in Jesus Christ (Lk.8:13). But if we DO believe in Him, then we ARE saved.
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18 NKJV
Let me tell you, apostates, that is, those who once believed but came to reject God and Jesus Christ the Son of God DO NOT CARE about the salvation they have rejected and tossed aside. The mere fact that you DO care indicates to me that you are saved, just confused.

Have you sinned? Then confess your sins. When you do, God has promised to forgive you (1Jn.1:9; Ps.32:1-5). Jesus has already died for ALL of your sins. Why would God not be willing to forgive you when He says He will? Doubting Him in this is a very dangerous and subjective position to take and one that is not in the Bible. That is like saying you don't trust God to do what He says He will do. That is not the way believers should be. We who have believed in Jesus Christ need to move forward with Him in the same way we came to belong to Him in the first place.
But with respect to the progress you have made, keep on advancing in the same way!
Philippians 3:16
That "same way" is through believing the truth you are taught and putting into practice with that same faith. In other words, believers are charged to grow spiritually. Sanctification, staying away from sin, is one part of the picture, but the other part, the decisive one, is spiritual growth. You can't fight the enemy without ammunition and that ammo is the truth of the Word, made clear to you by the Spirit when you study under a ministry such as Ichthys (I also recommend Bible Academy at the link).

The Christian life is all about moving forward and NOT looking backwards.
(12) [It is] not that I have already gotten [what I am striving for], nor that I have already completed [my course]. Rather, I am continuing to pursue [the prize] in hopes of fully acquiring it – [this prize for whose acquisition] I was myself acquired by Christ Jesus. (13) Brethren, I do not consider that I have already acquired it. This one thing only [do I keep in mind]. Forgetting what lies behind me [on the course] and straining towards the [course] ahead, (14) I continue to drive straight for the tape, towards the prize to which God has called us from the beginning [of our race] in Christ Jesus. (15) So as many as are [spiritually] mature, let us have this attitude (i.e., of focusing on our spiritual advance and reward and not getting hung up on what lies behind: vv.13-14), and if in any matter your attitude is off-center, God will reveal that to you (i.e., assuming you are mature and are advancing as you should).
Philippians 3:12-15
I assure you, THIS is what Jesus wants you to do. Not doubt your salvation. Not wallow in guilt. Not fixate on the past. But get up and get moving FORWARD. Turn away from all bad things, confess your sins, and commit to spiritual growth. Only a daily intake of good, healthy, spiritual food will help you grow (and you are doubtless NOT going to find that in 99.99% of the churches out there in Laodicea today). 

You are a believer or you wouldn't care about your salvation. It really is that simple. I advise you to do what the Jews whom Nehemiah came to help did: get up and start rebuilding that wall. God will help you – if you are willing to be helped.

The most recent posting at Ichthys has to do with related issues (at the link). Here are a couple of links which addressed the incorrect understanding of those passages in Hebrews which many wrongly entertain:
Are those in Hebrews 6:4 who "crucify the Son of God afresh" lost?

The Grammar of Hebrews 6:4ff.

No, Hebrews does not teach that you lost your salvation.
I honestly don't understand why you find Job 33 concerning since the passage affirms that God forgives and restores those children of His who come back to Him. That is the lesson of the prodigal son too, after all: he did horribly bad things . . . but his father received him with open arms when he came back. So does our dear heavenly Father and so does our dear Savior Jesus Christ.

In Him,

Bob L.
Question #4:   
Hi Bob,

I have some writing from the past wherein I dove into specifics of justification by faith as it relates to works. In that writing, I touched on Ephesians 2:4-10 (salvation by grace through faith), John 15 (Christians bearing fruit), Romans 3:21-26 (justified by faith not works of the law) -- cf. also Romans 5:1-2, Romans 4:1-5 (Abraham's justification by faith apart from works), and of course James 2 (especially verses 20-24, talking about Abraham's justification by faith and works in concert).

That piece was primarily focused on the difficulty of Romans 4:1-5 and James 2:20-24 seeming to directly contradict each other.

To give the short version, I mostly focused on drawing a distinction of "types of works", contrasting "human works" and "works of faith." One then interprets the passages something like this:

The James passage:

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works [of faith]? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works [of faith], is dead. 18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works [of faith].” Show me your faith apart from your works [of faith], and I will show you my faith by my works [of faith].19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! 20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works [of faith] is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works [of faith] when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works [of faith], and faith was completed by his works [of faith];23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works [of faith] and not by faith alone. 25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works [of faith] when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works [of faith] is dead.

The Ephesians passage:

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of [human] works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works [of faith], which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

The Romans 4 passage:

1 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by [human] works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works [in human terms], his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work [in human terms] but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness

In the end, I concluded:

Paul in Romans 4 is using Abraham as a contrasting example to human works since Abraham acted in faith.
James in James 2 is using Abraham as a contrasting example to “faith” that does not produce fruit since Abraham’s faith proved itself genuine through his actions, actions which required a great deal of belief.
According to Paul, Abraham was justified by his faith and not by human works. According to James, Abraham was justified by his faith and the works of faith springing from it that demonstrate his faith to be true. Put differently, James is saying that Abraham was justified by faith shown to be real through works of faith. No contradiction.

OK, so all that is well and good. It made sense to me when I wrote it, and still largely does. The distinction between "types" of works being the interpretive secret sauce, if you will.

But in my current work on Romans, I found myself writing a few paragraphs regarding the justification mentioned in Romans 2:13. Knowing that I'd written about all this before, I went to find the above past writing, only to bump into the fact that this Romans 2:13 verse doesn't seem to neatly fit into the interpretive framework.

For, everywhere else in Romans (e.g., in the Romans 3:21-26 passage) Paul talks about faith, works, and justification, the works [of the law] are explicitly said to be insufficient, with faith being the necessary driver of justification. But this verse mentions "doers of the law" being justified. And we know it is salvific justification because of context (cf. the prepositional phrase in Romans 2:16 -- and the future passive form of δικαι ω here).

It's the "law" bit that's got me a bit tangled up. Kind of the whole thesis of my past writing was that the "works" mentioned in James 2 are not the same as the ones mentioned in Romans, and that's how one explains the difficulties. I suppose, if one wanted to to be pedantic, we truly don't have ergon in Romans 2, just ποιηταὶ (="doers"). But I don't think that really gets me out of the challenge.

I've turned it over in my head a bit, but haven't come up with a great answer. You can, in fact, mostly leave aside the James passage in this question (I just brought it up to show my interpretive method thus far); Romans 2:13 and Romans 3:21-26 alone are sufficient to introduce the question.

Anything jump out at you?

Yours in Christ,
Response #4:  
Re: "Anything jump out at you?", without doing a detailed analysis of your email and to answer this question only, Paul is talking about salvation when he speaks of justification by faith; James is talking about the believer in time where one believer claims he/she doesn't have to "do" anything thereafter because he/she is saved (and justified by faith); but while it is true that we are born again, born from above, justified by our faith when we believe, we cannot rest on our laurels. As we became believers through faith, if our faith is genuine then it will result in the "good works which God prepared in advance for us to do" (Eph.2:10).
Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith.
Galatians 6:10 NKJV
Paul is setting down the principle of how we are saved; James is warding off abuse on the part of those who are essentially "absolute eternal security" types who are not growing or producing. Whereas what we are supposed to do after saving faith is clear in Paul as well:
But with respect to the progress you have made, keep on advancing in the same way!
Philippians 3:16

(6) So then, exactly as you [originally] received Christ Jesus as [your] Lord, be walking in Him [in the very same way], (7) rooted and built up in him, established in the faith just as you were taught, overflowing with thanksgiving.
Colossians 2:6-7
In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #5:   
Dear Brother Bob, hope you are well.

Your response reminded me a lot of Romans 1, that God has revealed Himself in nature, but people reject God.

There are times when I doubt my salvation, there are Pastors like John Macarthur and Charles Stanley who have written books on eternal security, but there are also those who believe eternal security is a false doctrine. Regardless of which position is true, how do we know we have genuinely been born again?

Thanks Brother Bob,
Response #5:  
We are secure in our salvation . . . as long as we retain our faith in Christ. Only believers are saved:
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18 NKJV
The thing is, it is possible for some who believe today not to believe tomorrow. During the Tribulation, fully one third of believers will be swept up in the Great Apostasy (see the link). Since we are presently nearly on the cusp of the Tribulation, this is no small issue (see the link: "Three False Doctrines which Threaten Faith"). The Bible clearly teaches the possibility of apostasy, that is, the deliberate casting away of one's faith so as to revert to being an unbeliever:
"But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away."
Luke 8:13 NKJV
The problem with most teaching about apostasy and loss of salvation is that it is wrongly connected to the problem of sin. Sin itself does not result in loss of salvation, no matter how bad or how much. Sin DOES result in divine discipline and does push a person farther and farther away from the Lord if there is no repentance and confession (which results in forgiveness always: 1Jn.1:9). Please read the link on this for the details on the distinctions involved: in BB 3B: "Apostasy and the Sin unto Death").

As to "There are times when I doubt my salvation", I can't imagine why. The Holy Spirit within us affirms that we are children of God (Rom.8:15; Gal.4:6), and no one who lacks the Spirit belongs to Jesus Christ (Rom.8:9). Salvation is the first thing we believe; not much spiritual progress is possible if that is not believed. I encourage you to begin reading into this ministry aggressively AND believing what you are taught. There is no spiritual growth without the truth; there is no spiritual growth without BELIEVING the truth. Do you believe in Jesus Christ, that He is God and man, that He died for your sins and the sins of the world? If you do, you are a believer, and all believers have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved (see the link).

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #6:  
Dear Brother Bob, hope you are well.

I agree that it is possible to believe today and not tomorrow. There are some people I went to college with who served on the worship team, that after a few years said they no longer believe in God. This is not an isolated incident as I have known several people from college like this. One girl, outwardly seemed to show the fruit of the Holy Spirit and her prayers sounded sincere, but today she calls herself an atheist. This is very alarming. I remember Peter once asked Jesus, who then can be saved? (Matt 19:25). They are at a point where they once were talking about Jesus frequently and now they do not want to mention His name. I am not sure if there is anything I can or should be doing to help them.

Love in Christ,
Response #6:  
Your experience is not at all unique in this regard. There are a lot of fair-weather Christians out there in Laodicea who abandon the Lord when trouble comes or when they don't get what they want out of life, just as our Lord predicted (Matt.13:20-21; Mk.4:16-17; *Lk.8:13).

In terms of helping others, that really is a judgment call. We have to rely on the Spirit's guidance there. You know what our Lord said about casting pearls before swine: we need to take care that they don't turn around and attack us. Clearly, anyone who turns a brother or sister around with a timely word is doing the Lord's work and greatly benefitting that person (e.g., Jas.5:20). But for those who have completely turned aside from the Lord, the end is worse than the beginning (2Pet.2:21-22). So all I can say by way of guidance here is that while a timely word is a delight (Prov.15:23), and one "fitly spoken" is like "apples of gold in settings of silver" (Prov.25:11), especially in days such as we presently live in being prudent about what we say and to whom we say it has never been more important (Prov.22:3; 23:9; Is.59:14-15a).
"You oppress the righteous man, you take bribes, and you turn the innocent away [from justice] at the gate. So the prudent man keeps quiet at [such a] time [as] this, for it is an evil time."
Amos 5:12b-13 (cf. Matt.7:6)

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.
1st John 5:16 NKJV
In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #7:   
Dear Brother Bob, hope you are well.

You bring up an interesting word, “fair weather Christians”, and the church at Laodicea. My question is that based on your understanding of Scripture, do you think lukewarm Christians are saved? My background is in clinical mental health. I have had patients who said they are Christians but they say they have slept with multiple women and have nothing to do with the church. I have recently been wondering if lukewarm Christians have no fruit of the Holy Spirit, are they really born again? I am working on certification in Biblical counseling, and the first step is to determine if the person is a Christian or not because a non-Christian would have no ability to understand the Scriptures.

Love in Christ,
Response #7:  
On your questions:

1) "do you think lukewarm Christians are saved?": A Christian, the way I use the word, is someone who has saving faith in Jesus Christ, in other words, a believer. Scripture often describes believers with an attributive participle phrase just so, i.e., as "those who are believing", meaning, those who have faith in Jesus Christ. 
"He who believes in Him (lit., "the one who is believing") is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed (perf. tense, "has not entered into the state of having faith") in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18 NKJV
There are believers and there are unbelievers. An unbeliever is not saved just because he/she is a fine upstanding person living an exemplary moral life. A believer is not "not saved" if he/she is not behaving as a Christian should. In the case of the former, no amount of human good works will save a person – only Jesus could take away any sin (and He did die for all sins, so standing on His work is the only way to be saved). In the case of the latter, as we have discussed, sin pushes a believer away from the Lord if not repented of and confessed, and the farther away a Christian gets for the Lord and His truth, the weaker his/her faith becomes. At some point, in the case of chronic, gross sinfulness, this usually results in either apostasy (the loss of faith when a person stops believing and is thus no longer a believer but a reverted unbeliever) or the sin unto death (when the Christian refuses to relinquish faith but also refuses to change his/her ways). This is all discussed at the link. 

Being lukewarm is a dangerous place for any believer to be, as Jesus said: "because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am about to vomit you out of my mouth" (Rev.3:16) – a prophecy which will be fulfilled during the Tribulation when lukewarm Laodicean believers are likely either going to apostatize or finally heat up for the Lord. In the meantime, to answer your question directly, I would say that in our present era the vast majority of believers are lukewarm. They are believers; but they are not doing what the Lord wants in growing spiritually, growing closer in their walk with Him, and helping others to do the same.

2) "they have slept with multiple women and have nothing to do with the church": On the first part, when you say, essentially, "they have [in the past] committed gross sin", first, we are all sinners, and the fact of having been demonstrably shameful in our sinning in the past, however that was manifest (drugs, alcohol, criminal behavior, legalism, deceit, etc., etc.), is not necessarily a mark of present spiritual status. If you say, on the other hand, "they ARE NOW DOING thus and so", that is quite another matter and as mentioned above is even more dangerous than being lukewarm because it is likely to result in either apostasy or the sin unto death if not checked, if there is no repentance, no confession. But "prodigal sons" do come back to the Lord. Most of us have been there in one way or another. Amen? It's just the manifestations that are different.

But as to "[they] have nothing to do with the church", here I can't see that as a fault, given what the church-visible is today. Many "in the church" are not believers, and those who are happen to be lukewarm for the most part – which is why they are where they are (see the link). Very few churches today have anything seriously to do with teaching the Word of God and thus fulfilling the Lord's mandate for assembling. They assembly to no apparent good purpose, and in fact it is true of most of them what Paul said of the Corinthians, "your meetings do more harm than good" (1Cor.11:17 NIV). They teach by their actions that growing spiritually is not important, but that superficial "nodding to God", engaging in various legalistic behaviors, supporting this wrong approach by work and money, and doing their best to dissuade others from taking a different approach is godly – when if fact it is nothing of the sort. This is not a point in favor of grossly sinful Christians or merely lukewarm ones being in those statuses, however. If they wanted to change and wanted to grow, however, they would seek – and then with God's help they would surely find – some place where they could grow (in addition to Ichthys I highly recommend Bible Academy at the link).

3) "if lukewarm Christians have no fruit of the Holy Spirit, are they really born again?": All genuine believers have some fruit (Jas.2:20-26), something to put before the Lord on that Day. But what is fruit? It's not superficial appearance (otherwise the Pharisees would be saved). And it's not refraining from sinfulness others can see (merely whitewashing the outside). We all ought to stay away from gross sin that can trip up our fellow believers as well as ourselves. However, hiding our sins is only Pharisaical hypocrisy. Just because others cannot see it, doesn't mean that the Lord is blind to it. We get no points for not doing bad; we are rewarded for doing the good things the Lord ACTUALLY wants us to do (and not for refraining from the bad things which hinder us in that process in many ways [so they are related in that way]). Similarly, just because we cannot see a Christian's production doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We see people "handing out tracts" and "attending church" and "getting water-baptized" and such like. But does God really want these things or consider such behavior godly and rewardable? To remember the Pharisees again, they went to great lengths to make sure people knew they were giving money or doing other "good deeds". But the Lord tells us that if we do things in order to be seen doing them, that is the only reward we will get (Matt.6:2-16). We don't know who is praying and when and how much or how well, for example (1Thes.5:17). We don't see the gift of every cup of cold water, for example (Matt.10:42). We aren't privy to every time some believer has given encouragement to another (Heb.10:25). And we can only glean a person's spiritual growth – which is itself highly rewardable and the basis for all genuinely rewardable activity in the Christian life – by their words and deeds in a very general way. The Lord is the One who knows about our true "fruit"; the rest of us should be reticent about judging that of others – and even about judging ourselves:
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one's praise will come from God.
1st Corinthians 4:5 NKJV
4) "a non-Christian would have no ability to understand the Scriptures.": That is absolutely true (see the link for the details: "Faith Epistemology"). The Holy Spirit is the One who makes biblical truth understandable to us all, and for unbelievers, will only do so in the case of the gospel, which is the first and most necessary bit of truth they need to hear and believe. But even believers need to be willing to hear the truth, willing to confess their sins daily and commit to learning and believing and living the truth. There are scant few today who fall into this blessed category – which is the whole problem with lukewarmness and Laodicea which we have been discussing. 

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #8:   
Hi!

I began following the Lord in 2014. I became a missionary and have been on the field for a while. However, I very isolated and frankly, foolish. Rather than work on the fruits of the spirit and who I was in Christ as a person, I became Works-based. The result was I became filled with envy and did things that should never have been done. I also struggled mightily with fear of man.

I also used to have rages at the Lord and I had little fear of the Lord, little desire to read the Bible, and little desire to learn about the promises of God. I remember that I was Always saying that something felt off because I did not “know” Jesus the way I wanted to.

Earlier this year, I failed to complete 2 assignments from the Lord, due to fear of man. Immediately, I noticed a difference. I began having issues understanding the Gospel, which was unusual. I knew I had fallen into Works-based salvation but could not wrap my mind around how to et away from that. I knew that it was wrong and that Works could never buy forgiveness. Then, envy came back full force. I realized later this was apostasy.

I eventual did repent of the envy. Ad I was able to understand the Gospel again. But something is missing. I knew Jesus is the Son of God, I believe that God raised him from the dead, I believe that he died fo my sins. There is no other way to be saved.

But I cannot seem to get that info from my head into my heart. It’s like i cant repent. Also, I don’t feel the Spirit’s presence anymore. It’s like I have belief, but not saving Faith. I want to have Faith. The only other alternative is God handed me over and I can believe but never put my faith in Him again (Hebrews 6)

Help – is this something God will do to us? Let us understand but never be able to trust in Jesus again?
Response #8:  
Good to make your acquaintance.

Let me assure you that all who believe in Jesus Christ, who accept His perfect person, human (since the incarnation) and divine (true God), and His work in dying for all of the sins of the world on the cross (i.e., His spiritual death), are saved. As our Lord said,
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18 NKJV
Believers get out of fellowship and need to confess their sins (1Jn.1:1-10); that is why confession is part of the Lord's prayer. Believers get "spiritually dry", meaning that because they are not taking in the Word of God through a good solid teaching ministry on a regular basis and taking pains to apply it to their lives, they can begin to feel far away from God since they are not growing as they should be. But all believers are saved. Apostasy, on the other hand, is not a "feeling"; it is the complete death of faith, the reversion to the status of an unbeliever as someone who no longer believes in Jesus Christ although once they did. As your Lord said,
"But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away."
Luke 8:13 NKJV
The phrase "fall away" above is from the Greek verb from which the word "apostasy" is derived. For more about all this please see the link: in Bible Basics 3B: Hamartiology: the Biblical Study of Sin, section IV.6, "Apostasy and the Sin unto Death".

Trusting, faith, belief is essentially our free will, the function of the image of God we all have. We all have the ability to believe and to disbelieve whatever we wish. But human beings do not get to determine what is true and what is not. Believers are called "just" that by scripture because we believe the truth about Jesus Christ. And it behooves us to live our lives going forward by putting the truth foremost in all we do, learning more of it and believing it and applying it more and more day by day. That is the quest to which this ministry, Ichthys, is dedicated. You are most welcome to all the material here any time.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #9:  
Hello Bob, 

The issue is I can feel my faith withering. I understand that even our belief is a gift from God, which is why I'm so scared. Because should he hand me over, then I wont even be able to believe anymore. I will be back to the status of an unbeliever. 
Response #9:  
Faith is a gift in the sense that the image of God is given to all human beings. In Ephesians 2:8, however, the "gift" is salvation (if that is the verse you are referring to).

The strength of our faith in the truth, in the Lord, is variable, however. It gets stronger as we use it, trusting Him and what He has told us more and more day by day in every way; when we don't use it, it atrophies. So the more we determine to believe the truth and act on that faith, the stronger our faith gets; the more we turn away from trusting God and His truth, the weaker our faith gets. It's all about the truth.

So the best way to see your faith grow is to commit to learning more of the truth through a good Bible teaching ministry (of which sort I believe Ichthys to be one; see also Bible Academy at the link), AND then believe the truth of what you are being taught, applying it to your Christian walk at all times (that is why it's important to seek and find a good ministry).

Our heavenly Father, however, is NOT looking to "hand over" any of us. He wants all to be saved (1Tim.2:4), and He sacrificed the Son He loves so much in order for that to happen (Jn.3:16). He loves you more than you can imagine, and Jesus died for you. So don't throw away your trust in Him: it is worth more than the present world (Heb.10:35-39).

In Jesus our dear Savior,

Bob L.
Question #10:   
Hi Bob,

As regards your commenter's #21 in the 7/9/23 post, all I can say is Amen, AMEN! I have no questions so no need to take time to reply.

I am literally living in a wonderland. E.g., I seem to have become a little Capistrano on the prairie. I currently have a second female sitting on a clutch and she gets her tail feathers in a knot when ever I'm outside anywhere near the porch where she nests. She has a unique chirp when she's annoyed and calls what may be three generations to strafe right at my head; not only me, but the grand dog, rabbits and local cats unlucky enough to wander across the yard.

We have spiders of various sizes and flavors galore. The only one that ever bit me was a Daddy Longlegs that got in the house which I was trying to get outside. Some are fun to watch, particularly the jumping spiders. Some I actually named. I try to avoid harming the spiders because they and the wasps keep pests down. The wasps have never stung me, either.

My mower died and __'s neighbor had one he was getting rid of and gave to __ who fixed it and gave it to me. The Lord always provides. Sometimes in completely unexpected ways. Between the death of my old mower and __'s gift, some of the grass and flora grew to maturity and I was blessed to see and enjoy many of the delicious and healthy healing native plants in the Lord's larder.

While there are venomous snakes, skunks, coyotes and feral hog out here, I have not been troubled by any of them. So while it's been unusually hot and dry, I still feel blessed to have been led to this little patch of dirt in flyover country.

So, to those who believe all this beauty crawled out of some primordial soup billions of years ago, I suggest they look out their window and consider carefully what they see. I could rhapsodize at great length but that would be a repetitive redundancy.

You and yours are in my prayers as is relief from whatever is troubling you.

In our Lord Jesus,
Response #10:
Sounds idyllic! 

I certainly agree with you on the insanity of imagining that the wonders of creation are an accident. Just look at one of those little birds and watch how they behave (link). They have spirits too, and only God could have created them. But arrogance hardens the heart and breeds ignorance, leading to the believing of all manner of lies. How merciful God is in having provided a reminder of Himself in everything we see. And yet most deliberately and willfully refuse to see. As Paul says, "their condemnation is deserved" (Rom.3:8).

Working out in the yard tomorrow. The rain we've been getting has been great, but it sure makes the grass and weeds grow. Lots to do.

Thanks for your prayers and support, my friend!

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #11:  
Hi Robert, hoping this email finds you well. I trust (and pray regularly) all things are working for good for you? As usual, I have a question for you...

You wrote me once that you didn't believe there was any example in scripture of God refusing a repentant person regardless of their sin(s). As I work through the old testament I am vexed by two accounts. In 2nd Kings, after the book of the law is found in the temple and presented to king Josiah, he puts in reforms and scrubs all the evil false God worship and the people turn back to the Lord. However, the Lord's anger is not assuaged and He will not relent on the punishment of the people.

Also, commentators consistently say that wisdom in Proverbs 1.24-29 is also a reference to the Lord and that proverb says when the people referred to seek the Lord, He will not be found. When they call upon Him, He will not listen. ?

This is in contrast to "all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved". I'm confused on this. Does this mean Romans 10. 13-15 only applies until God's patience is exhausted and then no forgiveness?

What about the repentance in 2 Kings? Is that also no forgiveness?

Can someone pass the point of God's patience and be beyond forgiveness even if they repent and want to follow Him?

I know scripture doesn't contradict itself but I can't reconcile this

Blessings Robert,
(I looked through my emails but don't see where I've ever asked you this before)
Response #11:  
Things are going well here. Had some minor bugs off and on but nothing to knock off going to work for, so that's all to the good.

On finding the temple scroll and what the Lord said, first, we have to remember that the Lord knows the end from the beginning. The terminal discipline that the Lord inflicted on Israel through the Babylonians happened because they did not repent of their idolatry in spite of such stern warnings. In other words, Josiah did have a tender heart and nothing untoward happened to him or in his days. But the later generations continued on their downward spiraling track and got what the Lord had threatened would happen. Secondly, this is talking about the nation of Israel as a whole; you and I have been talking about individual Christians. We can affect our nation for good or for ill in the aggregate as the remnant of salt, depending on the savor as a whole (link). But individually, we can't expect things in the macro-picture to be rosy if no one else or too few believers are "doing their job".
“This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says to you, Baruch: You said, ‘Woe to me! The LORD has added sorrow to my pain; I am worn out with groaning and find no rest.’ But the LORD has told me to say to you, ‘This is what the LORD says: I will overthrow what I have built and uproot what I have planted, throughout the earth. Should you then seek great things for yourself? Do not seek them. For I will bring disaster on all people, declares the LORD, but wherever you go I will let you escape with your life.’ ”
Jeremiah 45:2-5 NIV
The nation was destroyed, but Baruch was preserved. Also there are plenty of examples of where people do repent and the Lord "changes His mind" – which of course is not a change since He knew all along what was going to happen (e.g., the case of Ahab in 1Ki.21:20-29 where the Lord postponed the disaster on the country because Ahab "humbled himself" on that occasion).
But since you refuse to listen when I call and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand, since you disregard all my advice and do not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you; I will mock when calamity overtakes you—when calamity overtakes you like a storm, when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind, when distress and trouble overwhelm Then they will call to me but I will not answer; they will look for me but will not find me, since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the LORD.
Proverbs 1:24-29 NIV
As to Proverbs 1:24-29, first, this is a statement of principle and not a case of any specific individual who actually did repent and then the Lord did not listen. Second, what this is describing is not true repentance (the object is Wisdom, after all, not the Lord, and the subject is a hypothetical mocker of truth), but merely regret for bad consequences when they occur. This is exactly like Esau who was indeed upset that he did not receive the blessing – but was never willing to accept the truth or believe in the Lord or do what was right. Everyone who faces catastrophe is upset about it; being upset is not the same as repentance. Repentance is reacting to adversity caused by discipline in the correct way, humbling oneself before the Lord and turning around spiritually. If anything, Proverbs 1:24-29 provides a strong incentive to turn away from evil before it is too late. Actions have consequences. A person might genuinely repent and turn to the Lord after being caught robbing a liquor store, but should not expect to be delivered from the consequences of his/her criminal action. But even in such a case, if the repentance is genuine, there will be spiritual restoration and the potential for growth and reward, just not necessarily a complete dispensing of the natural consequences of bad decisions. As a man converted to Christ who was formerly an alcoholic and who was suffering from psoriasis as a result remarked, "God gave me a new heart, but He didn't give me a new liver".

Re: "Can someone pass the point of God's patience and be beyond forgiveness even if they repent and want to follow Him?" Here is what I read in scripture:
The LORD works righteousness and justice for all the oppressed. He made known his ways to Moses, his deeds to the people of Israel: The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever; he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us. As a father has compassion on his children, so the LORD has compassion on those who fear him.
Psalm 103:6-13 NIV
So, no, as long as there is life, there is hope. I will say that the farther a person gets from the truth, the harder they harden their hearts, the less and less chance there is that said person will indeed ever genuinely repent and turn to the Lord. But if a person DOES do so, then he/she will find out the truth of the above, that His mercy is beyond imagination.

This doesn't mean, however, that someone who takes the mark of the beast can return after that. But I take those passages in Revelation to mean also that no one who ever had an inkling of persevering in faith would ever take the mark in the first place.

Did you hear anything about the job? Keeping you in my prayers, my friend (and thanks so much for yours as well).

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #12:   
I guess basically I'm in a place where I'm not sure where I am spiritually. I grew up in a Bible believing household, went to a Baptist Church, and made many professions over the years. Without dragging it out with too much detail I got into willful sin (fornication, drunkenness, profanity) from about 14-23 (I'm 29). When I got my first tattoo at 18 that night it felt like something was ripped out of me (Holy Spirit?) and I was in a state of dread. Eventually this went away and I went back to my sins. I was convicted many times about it but thought "I'll repent later". Also the guilt and shame of my sins began to pile on and make it seem harder and harder to even consider turning to God. Long story short I'm living it up with God being the last thing on my mind when my mother who is a godly woman told me "there's pleasure in sin for a season" and that small comment sent me into a tailspin. I went forward at the next service I attended and knew I had to get things right, truly right. I did the only thing I knew to do and asked Christ to save me, but still something felt off. I had no peace whatsoever and thought maybe I had tempted God too long and felt completely condemned. This went on for months and eventually (I really can’t explain it) I started to feel some peace about it. My life had definitely changed. I was no longer sinning in a deliberate manner. Fast forward 6 years and I can across something (an article, website, sermon, something) and all this came flooding back but I would say worse. It’s constant mental torment of differing degrees. I literally feel like I don’t sleep anymore. Like something is keeping me up. I don’t know how I’m functioning honestly. It’s like I’m kept on the razor thin edge of sanity. Just constant dread. It just ebbs and wanes. It feels like that "fearful looking for judgement" that Hebrews 10 talks about. I talked to a preacher and he said "so there’s a lot of anxiety". I almost had to stop my self from laughing if I could have even laughed. I told him anxiety/depression would be a RELIEF compared to this. At times I quite literally can’t even think. I’ve been praying and reading Scripture it just feels like I’m talking to myself. I WANT to be Christ-like and have fruits of the spirit and witness to people, but I don’t even know my own state. I’m sorry this was so long. I’m sure you’ve got better things to do than hear my life story. I’m just holding out for some hope that God will deliver me. I don’t think a person could endure this for very long. It feels like dying every day the torment is relentless. It seems like I find a new verse every week that further condemns me. I didn’t know about presumption or blaspheming the Holy Spirit or any of the things that I now know. I just don’t know what to do. I would be a doormat in the church and praise Him for it. I just don’t know if He’s rejected me. It feels like it.
Response #12:  
Good to make your acquaintance – although I'm sorry to hear of your distress.

Let me start by saying that I have received countless emails over the years from believers like yourself who are beating themselves up over past sinful behavior and the way they "feel about it" now many years after the fact.

The first thing I always point out is that if you believe in Jesus Christ, His perfect person (God and man since the incarnation) and His work for dying for all of our sins, then you are saved. 
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18 NKJV
Believers are saved. Only unbelievers are not saved. The Father is impressed by the work of His Son through which our sins have ALL been paid for – NOT with the way we feel about it.
And He Himself is the atonement for our sins, and not just for ours, but also for the entire world.
1st John 2:2

[God] has erased the charge against us along with its bill of particulars (i.e., the record of our personal sins). This stood against us, but He removed it [as an obstacle] between us by nailing it to the cross.
Colossians 2:14
The above is important to digest. That is to say, to believe. Spiritual growth comes from believing the truth and then applying to our lives in the Holy Spirit.

This is the era of Laodicea. Most believers are unconcerned about the doctrines of the Bible, as if knowing a few things and going "to church" is sufficient. For those who "feel good", that seems to suffice. But just because immature believers "feel good" does not mean that they ARE good in the Lord's eyes. They belong to Him, but they may not be doing what He wants. "Feeling bad", as you do, is actually a slightly better place to be . . . because it may act as a catalyst to getting cracking with spiritual growth. 

We are here on earth after salvation NOT to "have a good life" (although there is nothing wrong with that as long as it is not the result of spiritual compromise). We are left here after we believe to demonstrate the quality of our faith, whether or not we really do love the Lord. If we do, then we will roll up our sleeves and get down to the business of doing what He wants us to do: grow to spiritual maturity, pass the tests which come the mature believer's way and lead to more spiritual progress, then engage in the ministry He has for us so as to help other believers with this same progression.

Please understand. If you want to "feel better", that is a function of "doing what is right" (by which I mean first and foremost growing spiritually which then leads to everything else). As you do so, eventually your emotions will come along for the ride. 

If the past were what mattered, Paul, who persecuted the Church like no one else, would never have amounted to anything. But what does he say?
Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3:13-14 NKJV
Very few churches out there are interested in helping with the challenge to grow spiritually. But you are welcome to the materials at Ichthys any time (see also this link: Pastor Teacher Curtis Omo's "Bible Academy").

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #13:   
Hi Robert, I honestly don't know what's going on with the job... I feel like I've just been strung along.

I am hanging in there, I belong to a good church and a good small group,, but in regards to your quote from scripture,, I am still struggling mightily with whether the Lord has forgiven or will never forgive me. Like Paul says, "lest he find himself disqualified"

When I think about God's holiness and righteousness and His magnitude, and I think about the number of times I went back to insolent, careless sin (drinking and lust) I cant grasp how or why He would forgive me. Maybe I wasn't ever saved. I'm unsure. I DO truly want to love God with all my heart and follow Him in committed obedient faith but I'm unsure if He is willing to save me now at all.

If you get a minute, please go to inductivebible.org and read the article 'On the sin unto to death and finding no repentance'. This post sums up all of what I see in scripture that really bothers me and won't stop chewing at me. Basically means that even if I believe and trust in Christ, His sacrifice no longer benefits me.

I would really appreciate you looking at this and then considering it in relation to me and everything I've told you. I'm at a really low point and there's not a whole lot going right, right now and maybe it's because I no longer have God's favor.

Thanks for being there for me for so long. I will continue to pray for you and hoping God is hearing my prayers.
Response #13:  
I'll keep praying for your boy.

On the article at the website you reference, it is, generously put, a heap of trash. It is critical to remember that our God is a God of great mercy:
The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever; he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us. As a father has compassion on his children, so the LORD has compassion on those who fear him;
Psalm 103:8-13 NIV
The above tells me all I need to know. One might add, one SHOULD add, that the Father sent His Son to die for us – and that Jesus DID die for all of our sins. Therefore all of our sins have been completely paid for, and we are forgiven what we do in this life when we confess – that is what the Bible says (1Jn.1:9).
"Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked?" declares the Sovereign LORD. "Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"
Ezekiel 18:23
If there is discipline in this life, the purpose is to turn us around. What good would turning us around or our turning around do if thereafter there were no mercy or forgiveness? But there is. Scripture says so.
If you, the LORD, kept a record of sins, Lord, who could stand? But there is forgiveness with you, Therefore you are feared.
Psalm 103:3-4 HNV
That article says the sin unto death is spiritual death but the death mentioned at 1st John 5:16 is physical, not spiritual: "for the destruction of his body, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord." (1Cor.5:5). That article uses Esau as a parallel, but Esau was never a believer ever at all. That article uses Lot's wife as an example but OF COURSE she could not repent after she was physically dead. I could go on. This article does nothing other than play on the worst fears and guilt of Christians who have skeletons in their closet – as we ALL do. But we are now striving to serve the Lord, to follow the Lord, to listen to the Lord. And we need to rejoice in the Lord and the forgiveness He promised and gives all who come to Him and ask for it.

Please take my advice and stop torturing yourself with this sort of trash. You believe in Jesus Christ. Therefore you are a believer. And all believers are saved; it is unbelievers who are not saved.
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18 NKJV
The people who wrote that article will have a lot to answer for before Christ's bema . . . that is assuming that they are even believers. When it comes to people who are doing the devil's work in fact, one never knows for certain.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #14:   
Hi Robert, when you can, can you please try to consider all the points below. I am mentally, emotionally and spiritually exhausted

I fully realize and am not denying that God is merciful. Scripture also says He will show mercy on whom he shows mercy. It is not guaranteed to all.

I take it you disagree with that guy's inductive scripture comparisons? He seems to make a good case...

I firmly believe in Christ and I trust in Him alone but I can't find the confidence that God has forgiven those often repeated serious sins of drunkeness and lust, committed with full knowledge for so long. Shouldn't that confidence that they have been forgiven come from the Holy Spirit?
I don't have that AND I don't know why or how to find it. The Lord is not giving me that.

I know there is a line that can be crossed and I don't truly know if I've done that and the Lord is not with me. I don't know how to tell and have confidence that I am one He is willing to have mercy on or if He's not.

I desperately don't want to lose the Lord from my life but I fear that. You can't trifle with God or sin or His grace and I'm afraid that's what He says I've done.

Not trying to make excuses, but I honestly think I have fallen back to these sins trying to relieve the crushing depression of not being sure of forgiveness which has only compounded the problem. Again, not trying to use it as an excuse.

I did not cease to believe but I ceased to follow Him faithfully. Is that not apostasy? I'm afraid the Lord considers me an apostate.

If I have been forgiven, wouldn't the Holy Spirit confirm that? If the bible speaks condemnation to you for what you've done or forgiveness, isn't that the Holy Spirit telling you that? I don't sense the forgiveness only the condemnation. I can't find anything in scripture that speaks forgiveness to my heart. I am deathly afraid I've lost the Lord. What evidence do I have to the contrary?
Response #14:  
I'll do my best:

1) "[Mercy] is not guaranteed to all." I disagree. That quote has to do with God's complete foreknowledge of what people (Esau) WOULD and DID choose in life. Mercy is guaranteed to those who seek it; not to those, like Esau, who do not.

2) "He seems to make a good case. . ." a) Induction is a dubious process when scripture is explicit as it mostly is; b) every point he made was wrong; I gave some examples; happy to explain any you found persuasive; but I reiterate that you find them persuasive because he is attacking your feelings of guilt. That is what the devil always does. Doesn't make it true.

3) "The Lord is not giving me that." He gives to those who ask (Matt.7:7-8) . . . and to those who pursue the growth He wants us to pursue. No one is "strong and courageous" in faith overnight. That takes spiritual growth. This issue is one of faith. Faith is a muscle. It has to grow through being fed (Bible study) and being used (applying it by trusting God in little thing building up to big ones). Does God's Word say you are forgiven? Yes. Do you believe it? Instead you are telling me how you feel. Faith is believing no matter WHAT we feel . . . or even see or hear. Emotions will come along in the end but only if they are led by truth, solid decision making for good, and faith upon faith.

4) "there is a line that can be crossed" The only one I see in the Bible is life and death. When a person is dead, no further change is possible. But as long as you are on "this side of the grass", you have free will; I encourage you to use it to believe the truth of the Bible and not to give in to your guilt . . . and not to harm yourself by listening to lies.

5) "Is that not apostasy?" NO Apostasy is becoming an unbeliever; someone who does NOT believe. Plenty of believers veer off into bad pathways. The result of that is discipline – of which you seem to have had your share. But after we repent, even all discipline is for our good (read Hebrews chapter twelve).

6) "If I have been forgiven, wouldn't the Holy Spirit confirm that?" You have to let Him. You have to listen to Him. You have to be in fellowship – which requires confession AND believing that you have been forgiven. You have to turn your back on this self-destructive advocacy against yourself. It's not in the Bible . . . anywhere.

7) "isn't that the Holy Spirit telling you that?" Not if you've turned around and asked for forgiveness. That is not the Spirit. That is your emotion inflamed by the evil one. If you would commit yourself to an aggressive course of spiritual growth and commit to believing what you are reading/being taught from a godly source, you would pull out of this tail spin. But if you're determined to condemn yourself, to think the worst when you read random scriptures you don't understand, to surf the internet looking for reasons why you're lost . . . let's just say you'll never get anywhere that way. Not anywhere good.
Therefore the LORD longs to be gracious to you,
And therefore He waits on high to have compassion on you.
For the LORD is a God of justice;
How blessed are all those who long for Him.
Isaiah 30:18 NASB
The Lord longs to be merciful to you. Be pleased to accept His mercy.

I am praying for you, my friend.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #15:   
Doc, so about the sin unto death, just curious, do you think God, deciding to have a believer who refuses to either live for Him nor let go of Christ suffer that punishment, would use an act of foolishness/stupidity on that believers part to accomplish that?

So say this believer living a life of gross decadence for example, gets drunk and drives despite knowing full well its foolish, and ends up dying in a crash. Would that be God using that act as the sin unto death? What do you think?
Response #15:  
Saul definitely suffered the sin unto death. The Lord used his enemies the Philistines to slay him. So I would not want to suggest that there is any means the Lord might not use in the case of someone who has tempted Him beyond His patience by giving such a bad witness to the world that the only reasonable solution was taking him/her out of this life.

The main thing for us to keep in mind, before engaging in hypotheticals and speculation, is that only God really the knows the heart of someone else, and only He knows why things happen. We can sometimes see these things with some clarity (we may think), but it's always a good idea to maintain a mindset of humility about things where in fact we could never say for certain this side of heaven.

Link: In BB 3B: Apostasy and the Sin unto Death

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #16:  
So if we're going to no longer have any love or care for people who went to Hell in eternity...what's the point of mourning the death of a loved one or feeling fond of the time you had with them/feeling like you miss them assuming they probably died an unbeliever/they didn't come to Christ that we know of? It's not something I would want to be true but with how we'll apparently come to the edge of the city and see them burn "as an example" or something like that, I don't remember what that was about, doesn't it only make sense to try to stop caring about them in this case or force ourselves not to? I've been quite distraught over the prospect of it, considering my father as far as I'm aware never truly believed in the Lord.

If we're going to be glad they're in Hell in a way in eternity, does it even mean anything, is there any point to caring about them once they pass without the Lord? Even if we "have a hope they may have repented in their last moments", does that mean anything if we won't know in this world, considering what I just said? Did the genuine love and/or bonds we had with them ever mean anything other than self-indulgent attachment, boiling down essentially to refusing to let go of something that's no longer worth anything?

I really hope I'm just overthinking this, because the implications from what I can tell are horrific.
Response #16:  
It's human to grieve for those we loved when they pass away. Even Jesus wept for the lose of Lazarus, even though He of all people ever had the perfect perspective on these matters AND was on the point of bringing him back to life.

I don't know of any scripture which suggests that we'll be "glad" unbelievers are in hell. We will, I'm sure, be VERY glad we are not (that is the point of the viewing port you mention: Is.66:22-24). We will not be able to grieve or be unhappy in eternity (Rev.7:17; 21:4). Being resurrected will be an experience unimaginable before the fact. But we can trust the Lord that it will be good in every way with no regrets whatsoever.

Also, it is prudent, in my view, not to become wedded to any particular scenario regarding the eternal destiny of others before the fact. We may have very good reason to believe that some we know/knew are believers and are saved; we may have very good reason to believe that others are not. But in the case of the latter, as I have said more than once, there has been more than one "death bed conversion" in the history of the world. Some people – many it seems – have to get right up to the point of no return before they have sufficient motivation to believe. I don't want to give anyone false hopes, but it is true that we don't actually know what is the heart of others – or what may have happened at the bitter end – so that it is not without reason to put aside such grief for eternal loss when we really cannot say for sure in many cases.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #17:   
Hello,

I heard Benny Hinn preaching and teaches it's not easy to be saved, but hard. He said there's a difference in believing In and On Jesus. What is the solid truth of Salvation? And can you lose it. Benny says yes you can lose it.

Thank you
Response #17:  
Good to make your acquaintance.

Salvation was hard . . . for our Lord. But for us sinners, it's not hard or difficult to believe in Jesus, which is what salvation is all about (Jn.3:18).
For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”
Romans 10:5-11 NKJV
Now it is true that while faith in Christ results in salvation, only those who believe in Christ are saved, that is "only those who are believing in Christ" are saved (that is the way scripture puts it). Unbelievers or "those who are not believing in Christ" are not saved . . . even if at one time they did believe. These would be those of the seed planted on the rocky ground that springs up quick but dies off under the heat of persecution, e.g. So while salvation is not hard in terms of becoming a believer and holding onto salvation is not a "pins and needles" thing wherein one mistake costs a person eternal life, believers are required to continue being believers – those who have faith in Christ – unto the end to be saved.
"But he who endures to the end will be saved."
Matthew 10:22b NKJV
There's a good deal about all this at the site (Ichthys). Here's a couple of pertinent links:
Bible Basics 4B: Soteriology, section II, "How to be Saved".

Bible Basics 3B: Hamartiology, section IV.6, "Apostasy and the Sin unto Death".
Do feel free to write me back.

In Jesus,

Bob Luginbill
Question #18:   
Hello Mr. Luginbill,

Your reply is an immense encouragement. Thank you for your willingness!

What you say is very true about the present state of churches and it's been a very hard road for us. We are currently not in a church for that reason. More on that later.

Yes, the forum sounds like a great idea and possibly a way to connect to other believers.

I'd like to first settle salvation matters. I can get into my experience and walk - as I have burning questions - but my main concern is in regards to the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. 

My husband would like this settled for me as well.

I have read through several of your letters about this but I have some further questions.

I know that faith is being sure and convinced so I am seeking that and I am sadly hard-headed. But I don't want to be and pray for God's help. 

My heart was not right and it was towards God. I spoke, knowingly and angrily against the Holy Spirit to the highest degree, ( possibly ). 

I sensed an extreme grief even before hand or as I spoke it, like the Holy Spirit within me was very sad and warning me, but I became bolder and I think I did it more than once. 

This was a few years ago and life has been awful a lot.

I feared sleep and going out in case I died and studied many commentaries and the scriptures and prayed. I begged God to help me know if I can be forgiven and I sensed Him say I had not repented. I knew I had a lot to work through and I wanted my repentance to be real, not just a fear of hell. 

Over time, I felt like I had repented, believed and then it wasn't settled. I sensed a roadblock in my heart towards the Holy Spirit that I needed to work through, so I had to constantly rework my mind to submit unto Him. It was concerning that I had to do this.

I would get confused or frustrated and have blasphemous thoughts and even felt like I was 'testing' Him or felt like I meant it at times which troubled me.

I took a lot of time to tell God and pray about it, I sensed conviction that I was not trusting Jesus, but unsure if I was drawn or allowed to.

These are some of the understandings and questions I had/have:

The Good ( From my understanding, I am willing to be corrected ): 

There are only believers and unbelievers.
God does not despise a broken heart.
Anyone who thirsts ( after righteousness? ) may come and drink.
The gospel means good news.
Jesus had to have died for all sins, or else the gospel message would have a clause and then not be good news.
I saw no scriptures that say someone is not allowed to believe.
It cannot be that all the other sins are forgiven mentioned, but not one. Because no one can have their sins forgiven partially. Only in Christ by the blood, so therefore you are either forgiven or not. 
I always thought it was a state of unbelief, not just normal but a refusal that hardened the heart.

The Questions/fears: 

In the Old Testament people who blasphemed God died without mercy.
Did Paul do it, and was forgiven due to ignorance and unbelief? Is that why he was given mercy?
Did Paul and the apostles preach about it, and does that mean the gospel message excludes those who have done it?
Could someone believe the gospel, but still be denied? Because Jesus does not lie?
God blinded people's ears and hearts to the gospel ( I was really having a hard time seeing how Jesus died for all sins, as he does not life, it cannot be forgiven. ) So I was concerned I was blinded.
Jesus said it was eternal, but does that mean when someone's heart is hardened they are forever unable to repent? ( Hebrews )
Will the person never feel forgiven or guilt-free?
Could someone repent but be not allowed to believe? I know I was struggling, like I just felt I couldn't no matter how hard I tried.
Are there people who either believe, don't or those that don't believe because they are told they will not be so they don't believe out of knowing it is unable for them to be forgiven, despite repentance?
Could my repentance be unreal to make the Bible consistent? I know I was having a hard time.
The major struggle I have is resting in Christ and believing all sins are forgiven, because Jesus does not lie, we cannot add or take away from His words. But even if I did believe, I would have bad thoughts and feeling again, wondering how a true Christian could do or be like that? Likewise, I just felt unfeeling and despondent a lot. I didn't feel forgiven.
The sin unto death? 

I was just like a log, almost submitted to God's common grace and just realizing I was done for. I felt like Judas, I was always going to do the bad and God just allowed me. I always had the foreboding fear I was going to be rejected and do wrong. Vice versa. I had so many nightmares as well. I always felt like a fraud.

I don't know if God grants repentance or if I can walk towards it and then He does it, but I prayed a lot. I told God, again what I did and decided I was wrong, but I wanted to be restored. 

The stumble for me is how is it possible, without calling Jesus a liar?

I prayed and sensed forgiveness and faith restored or rightly there. Because I would have to call Jesus a liar on all other accounts and maybe I wasn't understanding it well. Maybe it is really a matter of unbelief. 

I am there, but being grounded and built up is what I would like. I have also asked God to reveal if I am deceived, I don't wan to live in deceit. Unless He allows it so I can live in common grace for the sake of others and warning them. Matt. 7:21?

When I believe that the gospel is good news for all, I have peace, but when I look back at the scriptures about the blasphemy, it seems that it is impossible, logically.

What exactly did I do, because by the definition it seems I had done it?

Sorry this is long. I understand if it may take a few weeks. I trust you will be honest with me and before God, and I am thankful.
Response #18:  
It's my pleasure. You will have to bear with me a little too. As many readers find out, I don't always answer questions on the precise terms on which they are asked. Why? Because it's my job to tell people what I believe the Lord wants them to hear. So if there are any aspects of this email of yours I don't address the first time out, please be patient with me. I have no problem with you continuing to ask until you get all the truth you need.
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18 NKJV
These are our Lord's own words – and He is most definitely telling you the truth! If you believe in Him you are saved; only those who have not believed are not saved. May I observe that if you were not a believer you would care not at all about your spiritual status or what the Lord thinks or any of the things you've written me about here. Only a believer in Christ would ever think to write such an email. What you lack is confidence in the truth. This is no doubt the result of getting a lot of misinformation over the years – and in that our Laodicean era abounds.
"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved."
Acts 16:31
This you have done (i.e., placed your trust in Jesus), and this has been the result (i.e., your salvation). But unless we go straight-line forward after salvation (few do; I certainly did not), we are likely to lose our hold on the peace and joy we had when first we believed in Christ. That is recoverable. All spiritual recovery comes from spiritual growth, and no other way.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1st John 1:9
The Bible is God's perfect and complete message to us. It is always true. The words above are true – and unambiguous. When we confess our sins, we are forgiven and restored to fellowship with our Lord. We do not have to do penance for our sins. In fact, if we are relying on anything we think to do "for God", that is not grace, that is works, and that is abominable to Him. So if there is anything that concerns you, confess it to the Lord in a simple prayer and you will be forgiven. Then you can forget the past and move on. We are here to grow and move forward. Nothing in the Bible even comes close to suggesting that we should be ever allow ourselves to remain mired in guilt about the past. But the devil loves to make us feel guilty. When we do, then we are "out of action" until we let it go and move on.

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not some specific sin believers might commit; it is rejecting the gospel (link), something which by definition no believer can do.

The sin unto death is not some specific sin believers might commit; it is the terminal divine discipline which the Lord levels on wayward believers who are involved in chronic, serious sinning, usually of a carnal nature which is giving Christ a bad name; but even those who are taken out of this life that way are saved (merely missing out on rewards they might otherwise win; link).

It seems to me that you have gotten yourself caught in the guilt trap whereby you have become the best "advocate against yourself" imaginable. Don't do that. This is not the Lord's intention for you. Jesus Christ wants you to get moving with spiritual growth so that you can accomplish the purpose He has for you: earning maximum eternal rewards through growth, progress and production.

Rather than immediately thinking the worst when you read or think about some passage that bothers you, instead, put it aside and keep growing. Feel free to write me about any such passage (you'll probably find it already well covered at Ichthys). Only by letting the past go, accepting God's forgiveness, and moving forward with spiritual growth will you reclaim the peace and the joy that are your heritage as a child of God reborn from above in Jesus Christ our Lord.
Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
1st John 3:1-2 NKJV
Jesus loves you. The Father loves you. Please see fit to embrace that love . . . and get moving forward.

In our dear Savior,

Bob L.
Question #19:  
Hi Dr. Luginbill, ( I see you are a professor! )

First of all, I cried with joy that you are here for us. I thank God for your works and willingness!

I respect you answering according to the leading of the Holy Spirit and I can tell you it is fruitful:

The same day you replied, but before you did, I was anxious about these things. I had recently read Vincent Cheung's take on the blasphemy and I was realizing he is part of some kind of logical thinking system. I honestly don't know much about him or what he teaches overall. I was fearing that maybe I was thinking logically and with my own wisdom if I believed I could be forgiven. 

Despite anxiety, I had a glimmer of faith. I needed to go to a chiropractor appointment, and I kept praying and seeking God about this. While at my chiropractor appointment, my treatment called for me lie down a bit on a therapy bed and as I lay there I was again praying and pondering. Suddenly, it hit me that exact scripture you replied with! Faith is what condemns or justifies. That is not a lie! I was greatly encouraged and in truth, I wanted that encouragement from the Lord in a special way and from Him first.

We came home from the appointment and I saw you replied! WE were both overjoyed to have someone here for us.

As far as belief - I say that I am not sure I was a believer because I wasn't sure if I understood what it required and how it all worked. Did I need to keep obeying? I am not sure if I added works but I am pretty sure I knew only the blood of Jesus saved. All sins after salvation? I was a bit confused. I was always looking for my evidences. I was also concerned at how ready I was to fully commit. In time, I saw that I was living in a way that was not right, in my heart mostly. I was very concerned I had a double mind and I often struggled with blasphemous thoughts and negative, bitter attitudes. I did try and want to please Him but I question my motives. I felt like the bad seeds and I was too fearful of what that meant. I knew I was struggling to rest in Him.

I used to fall on knowing I was saved because I felt bad over sin and tried to get back up, thus I repented. Yet, I didn't trust myself. I knew I was prone to sin and making bad choices and even afraid of having my faith in my own hands. The stress of keeping myself, even in the faith is often too great.

I also struggled to love others, especially those sinning against us and the church that allowed it. 1 John 4:7-12 would that not make it clear I was not a believer?

Lack of confidence - I have been told that and I do consider that yes, I lack in confidence. I always have. You are correct. This is partly my own natural lack of trust and also from looking to self, which I suppose is a lack of trust. 

My spiritual sate - I do care about my spiritual state, yes, but too often it has been the fear of hell and not solely for the love of God. Even after I blasphemed I struggled to have a softness that wanted to be sorry towards the Holy Spirit. I knew it was wrong and I wanted to see Him rightly. 

I even struggled with unbelief and bad thoughts towards Christ. As far as I know, a true believer would not do that? 1 Cor. 12:3 also comes to mind.

Eternal Security - With much of what I shared, I have concerns over the traditional view of eternal security and I have been studying what you say about it. My husband is not convinced that eternal security is not true, but he confesses he is open to learning.

I will probably address a few questions with that as well over time. If it is not sure, we have a very serious issue and there is a deep concern over the state of modern churches and Christians.

You are also correct that the visible church has been difficult and growth always comes with recovery. I do appreciate those wise words.

Looking Forward - You are right, I look back a lot and need to look forward. I know a big problem I have is not resting and worrying. I look back at the past a lot, even if I don't want to, I get bad dreams almost every time I sleep.

I know this looking back is a problem, deeply and it seems to be a big problem generationally in my family. Almost every one of us. Your loving rebuke is received. My husband says it as well. I just needed somewhere to convincingly move and look forward to.

1 John 1:9 is true too, thank you.

You say:

It seems to me that you have gotten yourself caught in the guilt trap whereby you have become the best "advocate against yourself" imaginable. Don't do that. This is not the Lord's intention for you. Jesus Christ wants you to get moving with spiritual growth so that you can accomplish the purpose He has for you: earning maximum eternal rewards through growth, progress and production (see the link).

Again, you speak the truth. I didn't read the bible on my own for years because I felt so condemned, but I figured that was biblical and meant for those who are Matthew 7:21, which I thought I was. Also Romans 8:1. Then also Hebrews 10:6 I took that verse that if someone falls away then Jesus cannot be crucified again, thus they cannot be saved again, it is a one-time deal and if you fall away you cannot be re-saved.

If Jesus died for us, the gospel is good news then the believe that you cannot be forgiven would ultimately lead to: NOT believing the gospel. And to my knowledge, God has not told anyone not to believe!

You say:

Rather than immediately thinking the worst when you read or think about some passage that bothers you, instead, put it aside and keep growing.

I like that, I am not sure I considered it that way.Thank you!

I want to move forward.

I want life. We are even trying for a baby! That's a big step of faith for us.

In moving forward, I am struggling with several things. My husband is trying to help me but he admits he is not really a teacher and asked me to address these things with you. I know I am a mess, I apologize. Take your time, if you choose to take these on.

But First - I'd like you to know that if I ask questions or 'push back' I am in no way trying to debate, I am seriously trying to learn and if I disagree, I would not try to fight with you. So if at any time it comes across that way please know I am not trying to do so.

Eternal Security - If salvation is not eternal, how can I understand John 6:39? As for the sealing I can see your points made. We cannot ignore lots of scriptures and warnings, that is for sure. If I have a bad attitude against God or faith, resulting in blasphemous, wanted or unwanted, do I assume I wasn't saved because I wasn't truly repentant yet? Or am I actually saved but just need to repent? Is my heart not right and an enemy of God?

Baptism - I was reading in Matthew and it seems that Jesus is saying a different baptism is what He will do, not an addition, but I also see in the great commission that we are to baptize others in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. How can that be if it not be from water, as was a consistent thing done in the scriptures for a while? Also, in Hebrews the elementary teachings state baptisms? Are there more than one?

Church- This one is of great anxiety for me. For one, it seems that when my husband and I seek to understand doctrine, faith and practice for church and try to find a church that aligns, we are basically scolded that there is no perfect church and to just go somewhere because it is commanded in Hebrews. They say that if the church they preaches the gospel then that is all that matters. I am anxious every sunday that comes around. My husband says we aren't forsaking the gathering but trying to be wise. He is concerned with doctrine as I am, but are we wrong to be or not to just go somewhere?

My husband is also concerned that what is taught might cause me harm, to which, if I am unstable from doctrine, wouldn't that mean I have no faith?

Paul says to be of one mind, in Christ or doctrine?

Likewise, people often use the Corinthian and Revelation churches as an example that here is no perfect church. But why run to what God has said was not good? They were rebuked, I do not want to be part of that, also doesn't the bible say to avoid certain people? 

Work - I don't want to be idle, but I am struggling here. I have back pains and my husband desires that I work from home. We have always wanted me to be a mother who stays home with her children, but not lazy. I have been in churches that taught that if a husband works and makes enough to survive then it is outright sin for a woman to earn any money, that it is greed and sin.

In truth we have a lot of debt, a lot of it medical and we would like a home and to not be so tight in budget.

This teaching made me wonder if having things is a sin? If a woman working is a sin?

I'd like to help my husband, save, give to others, family, etc. financially. I'd also like to have and enjoy things in moderation. Is that double-mindedness? 

I am pretty content.

Jewelry + Vows - Many years ago, before I met my husband, I came to a conclusion that because Jesus was pierced for me, why should I have my ears pierced or use my current piercings for vanity by wearing earrings? I thought it was offensive to God! I'm not sure if I thought it was on a personal or overall level. Again, this was many years ago. I committed not to wear them for this reason.

As time went on, I saw that I may have been extreme and it would be fine to wear them and desired to wear earrings again but I knew I couldn't or I would be a liar to God and anger Him. I figured so what? It's just earrings, I could give that up to obey, better than have my ears thrown into hell, ( Matt. 5:30 )

But over time, I still wished I could wear them, assuming I was in a bad place to even desire it. My husband didn't agree with this commitment I made and he even wanted to buy me earrings. I started to wear them again, but it's not a massive thing for me, I often don't even bother wearing any! I struggle with concern over it though. I fear I broke a vow and am still held to it.

To top this, I created a small business making and selling earrings and other jewelry. I have put my shop on hold because I want to settle this and I do fear that if I need to keep this commitment or vow, that I would be tempted to want to wear some of the creations I make.

Jewelry + Piercings - On that note, some say piercings were not biblical, that the earrings and nose rings were only worn by sinful people in the bible and the jewelry God gives to His bride is allegory.

Likewise, only the slaves not wanting to be released at Jubilee were pierced and the earrings and nose rings were not piercings, simply soft golden rings. Thus, the extreme description of piercing was described in the scriptures with the slaves only, or why else describe something that was already done?

Also, that in the NT, God wants different things than in the OT, so in 1 Timothy 2:9 and 1 Peter 3:3-4 women are told not to wear jewelry, I assume to be in Spirit and truth? I am not convinced of this based upon other scriptures and the way that phrase is is seen elsewhere in scriptures. Likewise, archaeological findings show clearly pierced type of jewelry.

Am I missing something?

Art + Vows - I value skillful art. I strongly dislike the distorted and chaos of 'art' such as abstract and picasso-like or pollock art. It's horrible to me. I have always created art, but not always God-honoring in the past and I turned form it, but still kept creating.

When my husband and I got married, he wanted me to leave the job I was in which was making me sick and causing more back pain. We both wanted me to stay home and create art to sell. So I did, or tried to. I got a massive lack of support from the church we were in and some family. I was ashamed I wasn't 'working'. I sadly, doubted my husband's leadership and wifely submission was not encouraged or spoken of by the women at the church we were attending.

That caused me to research what submission was and I fell into some possibly legalistic teachings. I wasn't sure if I could do what I was doing as a woman, wife or as per the second commandment.

I noted that only men were A) chosen to create art for the building of the temple B) were filled with the Spirit ? to do so, when called, not before?

This concerned me because the art in the temple was not to be seen of people, thus the risk of idolatry was not so.

Likewise, I was taught that a woman should not have her 'name' out there or make a name for herself, only to advance her husband and his name. That it is a disgrace and I should stand behind my husband and not be seen. So creating my art business under my name was essentially wrong.

Art, Vows and Miscarriage - So I stopped for a few years, terrified I was usurping the order of glory God ordained and sinning by even creating art. I also knew it was becoming an idol. I was told that mothers cannot do anything like that, it's selfish and I won't even have time to wash my hair and I was afraid of making a choice between creating art and having children. Behind it was the concern over absolutes too and the life God requires of me. We lost our first baby to miscarriage that I believe is due to my sin of idolatry and I was hating others.

Today I stand differently in heart about hatred and idolatry, thank God!

Picking up Art Again - I began to start art again a few years ago, but this time I wanted to make a 'business plan'. I thought I had to set aside an amount of money for tithing, offering, giving, etc. I thought that was how God would bless it. Even though I never felt comfortable with the church's push to make financial 'pledges' - every year they did and used scripture to back it up. Something about it bothered me and I figured it was sin and greed within me. But I don't think that was always the case.

Anyhow, I sat down and decided before God to run the business financially a certain way. Also I thought the best way to give God my best and first-fruits while to treating believers better than unbelievers ( Gal. 6:10 ) I should offer my best, most skilled art for free downloads for them, leaving quick, less skilled art for selling. I didn't feel like I wanted to do all this but I felt compelled and that is was right and so I made my heart want it and I did.

I committed it and even how to use our money ( as a husband and wife ) because I thought having nice things was a sin in a way so I thought I had to work hard, give what is left over and not keep any for us. But I asked God and said I would keep a certain a mount for specific things.

I told my husband all of this and he protested and told me to stop making these vows or commitments, which drove my OCD over the edge. He wanted to annul the vows of wearing jewelry, the financial commitments as the thought they were unwise for the business and for our finances. I even thought to donate items and he said no, to sell what I can first to help us financially and if I thought to donate an item and he wanted it I cannot do it.

I don't know how to proceed. These commitments are not seemingly wise biblically, and often legalistic, but I see no way out. I was taught that if my husband hears and he protested I am free, but that is in the OT law, is it not? My husband says it still stands because he is my head, which makes sense. I am terrified of obeying my husband over God and accruing God's anger or consequences on us if I ask for release and move forward. I want to also bring my husband good and not harm. I am also not sure if my husband passes and I am still here if I would have to go back and fulfill the vows.

Almost every source I read, including the bible, it seems that no matter how legalistic or rash the commitment was, I am bound to it, or there will be scary consequences. I am not wanting to anything to erode my faith as I do see that sin can erode it! 

My husband says that I should not make vows, I agree and and have tried to repent of this, but I do get some OCD thoughts. My husband says that God is relational. I was so strict that if I said I would make chicken for dinner and made something else instead, I was incurring God's wrath! 

So for now, I am not doing anything really and I could study and pray and just putter all day but it does get a bit taxing and we need to pay bills. I also long to work with my hands and not be as idle, not that studying and praying is idle.

I don't want to receive grace and God's love wrongly. I don't want to hurt Him.

I again know this is a lot and it's been a lot for years. Thank you, take your time and I am praying for you.

In His precious name,
Response #19:  
It's my pleasure.

Re: "I say that I am not sure I was a believer". What matters is that you believe now. All believers are saved; only unbelievers are not saved.
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18 NKJV
This is also the short answer to your OSAS question: it's NOT a matter of being on "pins and needles", that is, "one false step and not saved". The only way that salvation can be lost is if a person reverts to being an unbeliever; that is, the total loss of faith / rejection of Jesus Christ. This is not something that happens overnight or by accident. Apostasy is a process (see the link).

Baptism: "I also see in the great commission that we are to baptize others in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit." This is not correct, not, that is, if a person sees this as water baptism. John prophesied that Jesus would baptize not with water but with "the Holy Spirit and with fire". The apostles, as anyone who has read Acts knows, did impart the Holy Spirit in the early days of the Church Age. That is what this verse refers to, not water baptism. For another thing, the Greek actually says "baptize into the Person", namely, making us one with Christ and with the Trinity. That is accomplished by the Spirit. That IS the baptism of the Spirit. Nothing to do with water. Plenty about this on the site (here's one link to get you started).

Church: "go somewhere because it is commanded in Hebrews"; here's my translation:
(24) And let us give careful attention to one another['s ministries] as motivation for [our own] love and good works, (25) not abandoning your mutual assembling as some have made it their practice to do [and which makes this impossible], but rather encouraging each other [to persevere in this work of the Lord], and doing so to an ever greater degree to the extent that you see the day [of the Lord] drawing [ever] closer.
Hebrews 10:24-25
In other words, if we are not assembling for the right reasons we're "doing more harm than good" (1Cor.11:17). In fact, for the Hebrews who received this letter, they WERE "going to church", temple, actually, and THAT was the problem Paul was trying to correct in this epistle (link). We'd all like a good place to go with great fellowship where the truth was actually being taught. But this is the era of Laodicea and one of the reasons for the dearth of supply is that very few Christians are like yourselves, that is, honestly and genuinely wishing to draw closer to the Lord through the truth of His Word. That takes effort and sacrifice. Most people prefer "easy listening". *I have just now forwarded a request to our moderator about the forum. Let me know if you haven't heard back with an invite by the end of the week.

Re: "If a woman working is a sin?" Working in the home is work – I'm sure I don't have to tell you! How a couple handles these issues is between them and the Lord.

I'm sorry to hear about the miscarriage. A dear family member had one a couple of years ago. It is a difficult thing (but much more common than many people realize). It is a mistake and a trap to assume that everything negative that happens in this life is somehow "God punishing us". God loves us so much He sent His Son to die for us. We all need His mercy – and He is merciful (Ps.103:8-13)! Job was not being punished. He was being tested. We are all tested . . . especially if we are attempting to do what God wants us to do . . . so as to help us grow.

I don't find anything in scripture to suggest that making or wearing jewelry is wrong; scripture emphasizes that spiritual growth is more important than outward appearance (not that having a decent appearance is in any way a problem; link). Vows are to be avoided entirely (see the link). Like all other things, if we've made a mistake, we turn away and confess it and move on with our lives.

Please remember that Jesus has already died for you. You have a right, a duty and an obligation to accept His forgiveness . . . and move forward with joy in the Lord. This does take growth. And spiritual growth has to be comprehensive to be effective (i.e., it's not going to work if we're just looking for band-aids to put on particular wounds and ignoring everything else in scripture).

I usually suggest starting with the Peter series and/or the Basics series (at the links; note: there are also MP3 audio files for these as well, at the link).

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #20:   
Thank you Bob!

My husband does think more harm than good can come to just go somewhere for the sake of it.

We are indeed seeking truth. It is so hard and so few seem to care. It's lonely at times!

I see what you say about baptism, and I need to keep things in context for sure.

I have been searching your site a ton! I want to learn a lot.

I need to see if you have any info on what faith is. Many have taught that faith is obedience. I am so confused by that, because it is true, if you believe something, you follow it. But faith for salvation cannot be of works.

Only the blood can save us. I cannot get around that.

The jewelry and art is trivial in comparison to the Word, and yes, housework is a lot of work! I enjoy it very much, though.

Yet, I desire to help financially. I fear breaking the commitments means I am not repentant, thus a false convert.

I ask for prayer.

Also, we have been considering a move to KY a few times. We have had friends trying to get us there. We have looked at Louisville, is it a Ladocian place there too?

Also, how can we pray for you?
Response #20:
It's my pleasure.

There's also a lot on the site about faith (especially in the Peter series). Here are a couple of major links:
Faith Dynamics: Peter #24

Free Will Faith and the Will of God: in BB 4B
James tells us that faith is not merely knowledge (Jas.2:14-26); but faith is also non-meritorious and the opposite of works (Rom.4:16). Faith is, in essence, the expression of our free will, the image of God we all possess. We choose to consider the truth as such, to accept it, rather than rejecting it. When we respond in a positive to the truth of the gospel which the Spirit makes clear to us, we are saved. How much faith does it take? As small as a grain of mustard seed, according to our Lord. After we are saved, it's not too much to say that the whole reason we are left here is to build up our faith, to make it stronger and stronger. How do we do that? Exactly as we would build up any muscle, through good nutrition (Bible study with a good ministry) and exercise (believing the truth we are taught and applying it to our lives). If there is no teaching of substantive truth where we are, we can't grow. If what we are taught isn't true, we can't grow. If we are in a ministry where the truth is being taught but we refuse to believe it, no growth will occur. If we do receive truth and believe it but are reluctant to put it into practice in our lives (preferring our old ways of thinking about things, for example), our spiritual growth will be hindered. But if we do things the right way, our faith will grow stronger and not weaker. And we will find that we are passing tests we used to fail, and that the Lord puts us into situations where we can minister to others too. That is how we earn eternal rewards.
By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Hebrews 11:5-6 NKJV
That's a VERY short synopsis. Much more about all this at the site.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
p.s., in terms of Louisville, it's not particularly different from most mid-sized cities (maybe a little more liberal leaning). I don't notice any particular thirst for the truth here; it's a very Catholic city (because of its history); it's very "clubby" which is off-putting for new arrivals; when they ask you "where did you go to school?", they mean high school (!? no kidding!).
http://ichthys.com/