Question #1:
Hello Dr.,
Thanks for reaching out, been thinking of you as well and was planing
touch base.
We’re bumping along ok here. __ is having some issues with her back and
hip but a tens unit has been helping her through. I’ve got a few issues
with the undercarriage as well but it’s nothing I can’t handle with the
Lords help. My job is as dysfunctional as ever and I keep my eyes on the
job boards, even had a couple interviews, but nothing has worked out.
That’s ok, I keep it all in prayer trusting the Lord to keep me from any
mistakes. I’m thankful to have a tolerable job at this age, even if it
has its moments. Also, I know that narcissists, sociopaths, and
psychopaths (psychological terms for the sin nature left unchecked) run
most institutions, so I thank God for His protection in the midst of it
all. I’m keeping up with daily Bible reading/studies, the new audio
files are awesome and ___ did a wonderful job with the labels, great
example of the body coming together to accomplish a task for the Lord.
I’ve got the Bible Basics series edit ready for audio, just waiting to
hear from ___ to see if she has a new software for me, if not I have a
back up plan that should work. Other than that it’s life as usual. Looks
like we’re in for some interesting times ahead, should be quite a show.
How have you been Sir? I’m sure this world has kicked you around a bit
since our last conversation, but I’m also sure the Lord is bringing you
through all the better. Thank you for the prayers, got you covered daily
as well.
All the best,
Rev. 22:20
Response #1:
Well, "more of the same" is not as bad as it could be. We're grateful
for whatever respite the Lord gives us. Same is mostly the case here
too. We finished the whole four month home improvement blitz (mostly)
along with complete refurbishing of the gardens and are still alive to
tell the tale. I am starting to get back into better shape (chassis is
cooperating if I don't push it too much) and have things pretty much
under control on the job front (making progress on the research . . .
finally!).
Re: "narcissists, sociopaths, and psychopaths (psychological terms for
the sin nature left unchecked) run most institutions" – what a great
synopsis of the status quo "out there" in the world today! Yes, that is
a great perspective to keep in mind. One could substitute "demon
possessed, demon influenced, devoted adherents of Satan's world system"
as well. Just a matter of terminology.
Glad to hear you like ___'s labels (I'll pass that along). No rush on
the audio files, even if/when the software issues gets resolved. Anyone
interested has plenty to get through already.
Keeping you two in my prayers, my friend (thanks for the update). Thanks
so much for yours!
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #2:
[omitted]
Response #2:
Great to hear from you! No worries in keeping your message private.
I have been meaning to email you and ask for an update. Is this your
last year? What about your future plans? How has the experience helped
in prep for ministry? Have you met any people there who are sympatico to
your point of view?
I don't know if you've been reading some of the latest posting on New
Age issues. There is some in there about this issue. Also the "Wide is
the Gate" series (see
the link) has a lot on the close alliance of psychology and eastern
religion from which New Agers take much (can't recommend it without some
reluctance since they are rabid pre-Trib and suffer from other doctrinal
deficiencies: good at the apologetics, criticizing others, but bad
anytime they shift into "positive teaching").
When one considers the origins of psychology, the absolute secularism of
it on the one hand and the use of dangerous mystic techniques on the
other, I personally would want to give it a wide berth. I have allowed
in the past as to how some Christians I have known have testified to
being helped by it, and also how that, for example, my seminary was part
of Biola which has also an entire "school of psychology". So I try to
take the approach of not "throwing the baby out with the bathwater",
even though from what I know (admittedly little) , there seems to be a
lot more bathwater than baby.
As to the Christian alternative, I wouldn't beat myself up about
practical application. The closer we get to the Lord, the more we make
Him and His truth our priority, not just in doing some good things but
in focusing every aspect of our lives and life experience around Him,
the cross, His Church, His truth, then the more "thinking about the
things above" (Col.3:1-2) becomes natural and not something we have to
force. In other words, it's all about spiritual growth and spiritual
growth is about more than just knowledge as we know.
None of us is perfect in this. We all have to fight this fight daily.
There are always ups and downs, successes and set-backs. But if we do
commit to putting first things first, we will make progress and get
victory in this area as well as all others.
So I would always suggest for believers not to make too big a deal out
of "experience". Pursuing "experiences" first is a very bad idea, one
which leads into all the sorts of excesses we see in the "emergent
church" movement today. If we concentrate on learning, loving and
applying the truth more and more day by day, we will grow closer to the
Lord over time . . . and that will produce peace and joy – to which we
have right as those who belong to Him (link).
But trying to force it never leads to anything good.
I'm happy to give you links, if you wish, but you are well-versed in
navigating the site so I'll leave that for now (do feel free to write
back).
Are you in touch with our good friend Curt Omo of
Bible Academy (link)?
He may have some insight for you as well.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #3:
[omitted]
Response #3:
It sounds as if you are making progress, and that is good to hear. I'm
not surprised to hear about the deficiency in language training (I think
I predicted that). But in terms of __ specifically, I don't think it's
any better at any other seminary, including DTS (just different
problems). I also hear you about "chapel". That was a mandatory nuisance
at Talbot too. But in retrospect it was good to have heard people like
John MacArthur in person (the better to understand problems and issues
later on). We didn't have many women in the pulpit there. The only one I
remember was Talbot's widow who gave us new students a talk about him
and handed out copies of his biography (she was a professor there at one
point).
In terms of the "thought fight", I'm sure you have many references about
the issue from Ichthys (happy to pass some along if that's helpful [links]).
The main points I would make in response to what you've written here is
that 1) peace and joy are not automatic; 2) just because life is hard
and flak is omnipresent coming from within as well as from without does
not mean peace and joy are impossible (we merely have to find them in
what is coming and not in what is present), and 3) we DO have the Holy
Spirit but we have to be aware of that fact and strive to listen to Him
in order to be benefitted by His ministry (i.e., that's not automatic
either).
In other words, we have to 1) do what it is we're supposed to do
generally (meaning, avoiding sinful and unwise behavior on the one hand
and of course engaging in spiritual growth, progress and production on
the other); 2) be aware of the blessing of the Spirit and listen to His
promptings of us (we get better at that if we are consistent in making
the effort); 3) seek to find the joy and the peace that are ours at all
times (e.g., no one can take New Jerusalem and the resurrection away
from us). This takes focusing on the truth, remembering the truth,
accepting and engaging with the truth . . . in our hearts. It does get
better over time if we fight this fight, but it will always be a fight,
and one which not that many believers engage in very effectively – not
only because it is hard but also because it takes a good deal of
"ammunition" (epignosis) to be able to be effective at it.
Glad to hear you are in contact with Curt [link].
He could use your prayers right now as he's having to move rather
unexpectedly. He's a little older than me and, I can tell you, picking
up stakes not so easy to do when you're young and even more complicated
when you're a bit older.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #4:
I'm actually very glad I'm here and not DTS because I realized that even
though there is some charismatic and egalitarian theology here, at DTS
it's Calvinism, OSAS, and some pre-trib rapture I think. The professors
here are Wesleyan/Arminian and are decent because there's virtually no
OSAS and they don't teach nonsense about God arbitrarily electing some
to salvation and others to condemnation as if we don't have a choice. I
think Calvinists just get Romans 9 so wrong. This video is actually an
excellent non-Calvanistic interpretation of Romans 9 if you have the
time to watch it, but no sweat if you don't cause it is long. For a
while I just didn't realize that the interlocutor in Paul's diatribe is
primarily a self-righteous Jew and not an Arminian straw man that
Calvinists love to tear down. Correct me if I'm wrong on some of this.
[omitted]
Response #4:
Thanks for the background on ___ vs. DTS. Makes sense.
On Romans, Paul has two audiences in Rome, both believers, but with
different hang-ups. Yes, Jews who are leaning on the Law, but also
gentiles who are disrespecting Jews. This was a huge problem and rift in
the early church with people swinging one way or another (regardless of
genealogy) whereas the answer is in the middle: we are all one in
Christ, even though Jews are Jews (and worthy of respect) and gentiles
are gentiles (and free from any obligation to the Law). Whenever
theology becomes the lens of interpretation, the interpretation suffers.
We should be reading what the Word actually says, and vetting our
theological understanding accordingly – NOT twisting scripture until it
lines up with our preconceived ideas.
Good stuff in paragraph #2. This is excellent self-analysis . . . from
the truth of the Word.
Let us therefore strive (KJV: "labor"; NKJV: "be diligent"; NIV: "make every effort:) to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Hebrews 4:11 ESV
"Faith rest", despite its name, takes effort (link).
That is also what James is getting at when he says "faith without works
is dead" (Jas.2:20-26), not meaning charity, but spiritual production in
doing what the Lord wants.
Nothing good in this life ever happens without effort. We believers
understand, or should, that our effort is a non-meritorious response to
the grace of God. We trust Him. We trust the Spirit's help and guidance.
We trust and love the Word. The more we respond, the more we strive to
embrace and live and love the truth, the better all these things become.
But it will always be a fight down here, until we see the Lord face to
face. Helped by the Spirit and the encouragement of the Body of Christ,
this is a fight we CAN win; we just have to be willing to keep up the
fight (link).
But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!
1st Corinthians 15:57 NKJV
Keeping you in my daily prayers, my friend.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #5:
Right okay. That's what I thought about Romans.
Thanks for all of this. The daily fight has been getting easier even in
the past week or so since some of the clarification. Just got to keep my
foot on the gas.
Thanks a lot
Response #5:
It's my pleasure.
Thanks much for the encouraging report!
"Just got to keep my foot on the gas." Amen! There is no "finish
line" on this side of heaven home. We can rest and let up only after we
see the Lord face to face.
In Him,
Bob L.
Question #6:
Hi Mr. Luginbill,
I hope you are well! My family were here to visit this past week, so
apologies again for another late reply.
When you wrote: "As "captain of the ship" we have a right, a duty, an
opportunity and a privilege to listen to the Lord, to the truth, to the
Holy Spirit instead of what we are feeling – or even what we are seeing
and hearing." When I have a thought that is wrong, what can I do to
actually handle that? If I have control over myself, how do I resist the
devil? In terms of the whole Revelation number, that has always scared
me - I think the enemy has used that against me (like worrying about the
roadsign) and now I'm in a mental trap that I'm struggling with. Or like
when I didn't want to touch my Bible in certain places, I know that is
not what God wants I just don't know how to get over the worry of this
issue. I want to be able to live my life (not in sin) but free from the
worry of these wrong thoughts and these patterns that I don't think are
from God. What errors am I making and how do I correct those and be
confident that I'm not sinning?
Respectfully,
Response #6:
I'm sorry to hear that you are still struggling with this, my friend.
Some issues do take time to work out and to work through.
It's always difficult to advise others on how to fight the inner fight.
Here are a few links which deal with the issue:
Who Controls our Thoughts and Emotions?
The Battlefield Within: Fighting the inner spiritual Struggle IThe Battlefield Within: Fighting the inner spiritual Struggle II
The Battlefield Within: Fighting the inner spiritual Struggle III
What I can also say is that it is so important to distinguish how we
feel from what we actually say and do. That is to say, combat veterans
pretty much unanimously affirm that they were all afraid in battle, even
the ones who acted most heroically. They felt fear . . . BUT they did
what they had to do anyway. That is how it is with us as well. It
doesn't matter, for example, if we don't "feel" like doing our Bible
study today . . . as long as we do it. So if you are continuing to do
what the Lord wants you to do, the fact that you are receiving
opposition from within and without is no reason to feel bad. To the
contrary, like a good soldier you are doing your duty in spite of it –
and you should "feel good" about that.
Second, if bad thoughts occur to us, for example, we don't have to own
them. We can say to ourselves – and mean it – "I reject that
absolutely". We can recognize that this is the evil one using our
memories and external stimuli and our old sin natures against us – but
we can also remember that we have the Holy Spirit, that He is God, and
that all these things we may dread and which may very much vex us are
nothing to Him. We just need to trust Him and hand it over to Him. This
may take a little practice to get right, but remember that faith is the
key. We have to believe the truth of having the Spirit and rely in
confidence on Him and His help for us.
In terms of the Tribulation per se, God will never abandon us. He is
right here with us. That will be true in any possible circumstance we
shall ever encounter in this life . . . and that includes whatever may
betide even during the Tribulation. What is the worst that can happen?
That we might be physically killed? None of us is going to survive
forever in these temporary shells anyway, and if it's the Lord's will
for us to be liberated and taken home, then we need to embrace that,
because it is definitely better on the other side. Believers need have
no fear of death because if we are living for Christ, then death is
nothing but the greatest gain in every way (Phil.1:21). Only unbelievers
need to be afraid of death . . . and very afraid they definitely should
be.
“And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him! Are not five sparrows sold for two copper coins? And not one of them is forgotten before God. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows."
Luke 12:4-7 NKJV
I'm keeping you in my prayers about this, my friend.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #7:
Hi Mr. Luginbill,
Honestly, I've struggled with it for such a long time and I just want to
get past it.
Sometimes I "feel" or "think" something that "tells" me that I want
what's wrong, but I truly don't. So I'm struggling with what I feel, but
I also then don't want to do whatever it was cause it makes me "feel"
like I'm doing it for a bad reason. Even when the thing itself isn't
wrong to do. Any thoughts?
I'm pretty sure at this point that I love God and want to do what God
wants, cause I've been struggling against this for so long. What you
wrote about not owning the thought was helpful. I haven't been good
about handing the fight over to God, I've just stressed and let myself
be afraid. I found a good verse in Colossians this morning, 1:29 - To
this end I strenuously contend with all the energy Christ so powerfully
works in me.
That spoke to me.
Thank you as always for the many prayers, I know they are helping.
Respectfully,
Response #7:
While I'm sorry that this continues to be an issue, from your report
here it sounds to me as if you are indeed engaging with it in a godly
way and trying to "fight the fight". Good for you!
As mentioned more than once (and explained in the links provided), how
we feel means nothing in the end. Our emotions are meant to respond to
our godly thoughts, but since we have sin natures they often "buck the
trend" when the trend is good. We learn as we grow spiritually to ignore
emotions which are not supportive and which are not right, and to do
what is right anyway. If we have to get up early and go to work or
exercise, for example, it is very possible that our emotions will
support our body's resistance and tell us not to do it – but most normal
adults have learned to ignore those dangerous and false signals. And in
our minds we do understand that if we don't go to work, we'll regret it,
and if we do get out and exercise, we'll feel better for doing it. So
this is just a variation on that same theme.
One other thing I can tell you is that the more immersed we are in the
Word of God and in good Bible teaching, the more quickly, the more
easily, and the more often we will find our emotions going along instead
of fighting us. So I would advise committing to growing even closer to
the Lord through the process of spiritual growth. That is something else
you'll definitely NOT regret down the road.
Keeping you in my prayers, my friend.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #8:
Hi Mr. Luginbill,
Well, I don't know how successful I am - I'm still working on it. I know
that how I feel means nothing, but it's hard for me to distinguish what
I feel and think from what I do. If I ignore the wrong thoughts, reject
what is wrong, but more forward with the things that aren't sinful, how
will I know that I am not sinning?
Maybe if I ignore the wrong thoughts (since I am pretty certain they are
an attack from the evil one) then it will go away and I can get on with
life. Does this sound spiritually safe?
Respectfully,
Response #8:
In terms of things that are and are not sinful, the Bible is pretty specific on this score. It is of course true that anything we think or say might be a sin, but in terms of what we DO, as long as we are being led by the Spirit, we can be sure that we have nothing to worry about on this score. If we know something is a sin – like robbing a bank – then of course we should not do it. Most of us operate on the default setting that if some action is not spelled out in scripture as a sin, then it's probably OK . . . unless the Spirit is guiding us in another direction. If we are not harming or damaging others in what we do, and especially if what we do is part of the way in which we are living our lives for Jesus Christ, seeking to be responsible people who are growing and helping others as well as pulling our own weight in working for a living and otherwise, then we don't have to worry about it. I would have confidence in the Spirit that living a normal life, doing normal things, is not a problem, and I would also have confidence that God will let me know if I turn out to be wrong about some particular action (that has happened):
All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.
Philippians 3:15 NIV
For everything else, remember, we have been called to have peace in our hearts (Col.3:15; cf. Jn.14:27). So when it comes to the great areas of the unknown, best to have confidence in the Lord that He knows we are trying to do right and will help us always in this fight.
This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.
1st John 3:19-20 NIV
Keeping you in my prayers, my friend.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #9:
Bob,
I have just had a suggestion from a loved one that has tripped me up, I
know it is wrong but it is one of those things that grabs a corner and
gnaws away at it.
A loved one pointed out to me how many people are really mentally ill
and/or have had really bad childhoods. From this it was suggested that
most people don't really know what they are doing and because they are
in such confusion that this compromised their free will and so they
cannot be held responsible for the choices they have made in their
lives.
The whole 'mental illness' question is a difficult one. Some people
claim that 'everyone is on the autism spectrum'. If that can be argued
away for a large proportion of people, that many people have cognitive
difficulties or behavioural disorders that impact on their decision
making, then comes the question of how can they be held responsible.
I have a relative who is severely mentally disabled. I trust God will be
fair about him, that He will be automatically saved as he cannot truly
make that choice for salvation. Just as children who die in their
infancy will be saved (before reaching the age of
reason/accountability).
I wonder whether people who allow their hearts to harden, for their
minds to darken and their consciences to be seared -- it could be that
they had plenty of opportunity to choose for God but have rejected Him
time and time again. The darkening of the mind then creeps in after this
repeatedly turning away from the truth and refusing to admit they need
God. This can lead a mind that seems to be sane and sound into becoming
more and more twisted through embracing the lie.
I just think there is a distinction between someone who was born, has
lived and died with severely compromised free-will to a person who did
have free-will but chose it to turn again and again to the darkness and
so the consequences of that choice was an increasingly disturbed mind
(Saul being an example of this.)
Your thoughts on this would be appreciated my friend.
In Jesus,
Response #9:
I think you are seeing this exactly the right way, my friend.
The devil is the master of subjectivity, but we who prize the truth
strive for objectivity. There are the saved and the unsaved, no gray
areas. Only someone who genuinely never had a chance to choose for the
Lord is automatically saved, all such are, all others aren't, and the
Lord definitely knows the difference even if we cannot always be sure
ourselves.
If we use our free will to harden our hearts, that is a mechanism the
Lord has provided also, to allow those who genuinely want nothing of the
truth to be able to live out their lives in the way they wish without
having the reality of the universe as the Lord has made it keep them
from going their own chosen way.
We live in the era of excuses. Everything can be excused, it seems,
except for thoughts, words and deeds which do not comport with the
growing crescendo of the universal system of Satan's lies.
We have the right as believers to be merciful and kind without at the
same time being stupid. In fact, that is our mandate (Matt.10:16; cf.
Rom.16:19; 1Cor.14:20). The fact that those who belong to the world seek
to excuse others in order to excuse themselves need not surprise us
(it's similar to those who say "some have never heard the gospel, ergo
they can't be condemned and then how can God condemn me?"). We need only
to cleave to the truth in spite of all duplicity, whether consciously
deployed or not.
Here are a few links:
Mental Illness
Christians and Mental IllnessClaiming the Mental and Spiritual High-Ground
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #10:
[omitted]
Response #10:
"Mental struggles" are no small thing. We are all tested and tried in different ways. What is a test and a trial for me may not be for you and vice versa. And, no, we probably have no business ASKING for things to be made tougher for us. Asking for ministry opportunities or a better place to learn the truth is certainly legitimate, but not for trouble and pain. We see enough of that in this life already WITHOUT asking.
Question #11:
The message on "don't ask for more trouble" is bothersome... I say this because I asked a couple times in the past for "God to punish me for my wickedness" out of guilt, even just today in a panic attack over my intrusive thoughts and thinking I gave in to them, but I immediately repented and renounced that request and desire. You don't think God's going to punish me with even worse thoughts for that?
Response #11:
Our God is merciful and loving. He does not punish us as our sins
deserve. He sent His beloved Son to die for them. He always does what is
best for us. He is not capricious.
We all need to trust Him more, not less – He certainly is worthy of our
absolute trust in all things.
The LORD is merciful and gracious,
Slow to anger, and abounding in mercy.
He will not always strive with us,
Nor will He keep His anger forever.
He has not dealt with us according to our sins,
Nor punished us according to our iniquities.
For as the heavens are high above the earth,
So great is His mercy toward those who fear Him;
As far as the east is from the west,
So far has He removed our transgressions from us.
As a father pities his children,
So the LORD pities those who fear Him.
Psalm 103:8-13 NKJV
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #12:
Doc...I'll level with you, you are NOT one I typically take seriously in
terms of mental health advice. But...I just want some words of
encouragement. I finally quit my__ problems...but in exchange became
plagued with the most vile imagery to ever be known by man pretty much.
Only a demon could have been capable of producing such horror. I was so
desperate over having a "perfect repentance" that would leave no
possibility to return to __ it seems that when the enemy decided to push
back against my progress in fixing my biggest sin issue they took full
advantage of that with their choice of resistance let's just say. I
became so anxious over these thoughts and trying to "resist the devil"
that I ended up basically running out of mental and emotional stamina
and ending up entertaining one of the current thoughts, or it becoming
far worse (which I often don't think is even possible anymore when it
happens), because I can't think clearly or push back anymore. It's just
been...very distressing and made me feel like I'm just a complete
monster for "thinking these on purpose".
These thought patterns seem to keep coming up with ways to make me doubt
I truly don't want them, producing new layers of false feelings, thought
triggers and doubt, etc, etc. I just...want to have a moment of peace
for once. It took me weeks to realize my constant despair and mental
exhaustion over this comes from me falling for what the enemy wants,
approaching this in a completely wrong way. Instead of learning to not
be bothered by "the enemy's fiery darts", which they take much glee in a
believer entertaining, I tried to prove I "would never again be the man
I was", when Christ alone is where our identity is...I want you to pray
for me, and also tell me how I can better learn to not be disturbed by
such things popping into my head.
Response #12:
In terms of medical help, believers should trust in the Lord and also make use of whatever worldly means He may provide. It would be silly not to use a band-aid, e.g., if one has one, to help protect a cut. The problem is when a person relies solely on worldly means and not on the Lord at all (as in the case of King Asa: 2Chron.16:12). The same applies to mental health as far as I'm concerned, and probably doubly so, because while it's obvious that a band-aid can help, the help that therapists and drugs may provide is not as crystal clear. We trust the Lord to help us, and we make reasonable use of whatever means He may furnish us with in this world, trusting that we are being healed by Him using what He has provided.
He is the one who forgives all your sins, who heals all your diseases,
Psalm 103:3 NET
In terms of the fight you are fighting, all Christians, especially those
who are advancing spiritually, are fighting this fight in one way or
another. Our bodies are infested with the sin nature and the first and
in many respects the most important battlefield is the heart. If the
devil can trip us up there, then corrupting what we say and do is a
great deal easier.
First, as I often say at such times, it's nigh on impossible to "beat
something with nothing", and scripture puts things in those terms as
well:
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.
Colossians 3:1-2 NIV
If you are focusing on New Jerusalem, or the Millennium, or the
principles of God's infinity and perfection, it's much easier NOT to
think of things you are trying to fend off.
Second, we have to remember and BELIEVE that we have the Holy Spirit
within us, helping us. If we stay in fellowship with Him, He can and
will, if we allow Him, defeat all such things.
(16) But I tell you, walk in the Spirit and you will not carry out what the flesh lusts for. (17) For what the flesh lusts for is contrary to the Spirit's will, and the Spirit is opposed to what the flesh lusts for. Since these are diametrically opposed to each other in this way, what you are doing is not what you yourself choose. (18) But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. (19) The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; (20) idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; (21) drunkenness, orgies – and whatever is similar to all these things. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. (22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, uprightness, faith, (23) humility, self-control. Against such things, there is no Law. (24) Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its weaknesses and its lusts. (25) If we live because of the Spirit, let us also walk by means of the Spirit.
Galatians 5:16-25
Third, as I've said many times before, part of this has to do with
momentum of growth and level of spiritual growth. If we are advancing
and have advanced to a certain plain of spiritual maturity, we do get
better at controlling thoughts e.g., making "captive every thought to
make it obedient to Christ" (2Cor.10:5 NIV). And if we are in a good
place of momentum at that higher level, this will happen as a matter of
course (not that we can ever relax, not that we won't occasionally
relapse). But if we are not where we should be and/or not doing what we
should be doing, then no amount of tactical inventiveness in trying to
manipulate our thinking to defend against the obnoxious is likely to
have any positive effect.
In other words, there is a right way and a wrong way – as with
everything else.
Here are a few helpful links:
BB 6A: Peripateology: the study of the Christian Walk
The Battlefield Within: Fighting the inner spiritual Struggle
Keeping you in my prayers about this, my friend.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #13:
Thanks Doc.
As for the "gaslighting" question...I define it as the simple dictionary
definition:
psychological manipulation and abuse in which seeds of doubt are sown in
a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them
question their ability to perceive reality, or lose trust in their own
memory or how they feel. From what I've experienced personally and heard
from others who have been in cults, this is one of their most important
tools, since it's extremely effective against those who are desperate
for a place to belong or something to believe in, particularly ones who
are in a mental or emotional crisis of some kind.
Response #13:
Thanks, but, LOL, if this is "a simple dictionary definition", the
lexicographer needs to learn how to simplify the simple. Yes, I have
heard this, but it still makes little sense to me. No one can make me
think or feel what I don't wish to think or feel; anyone who can be
manipulated in this way doesn't need to have special efforts used. All
you need to do is lie to them. We believers put the truth above all
else, so we should be invulnerable to this sort of thing directed at us.
I had heard that this technique had something to do with setting people
up in the public view falsely, but to be frank this seems a vague term
people tend to use for whatever behavior and statements are used by
adversaries with whom they vigorously disagree.
No worries in any case. As I say, as long as we are standing with the
truth, no one can manipulate us; and as long as we are walking close to
the Lord, no one can harm us . . . unless the Lord allows it for His
greater glory (cf. 7:54-60).
Hope you are doing well. Keeping you in my prayers.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #14:
I was starting Cognitive Behavioral Therapy today. I'm truly hoping this
will help me resolve a lot of the issues that have plagued me for so
long...I truly believe God was working in my life when I learned of it.
Do you think this is wise though? I knew about it for quite a while bit
refused it because "it's not necessary" or "growing in truth will fix
it", or even delusional worries (which of course turned out to be
baseless) of "it might have New Age stuff in it"! But in the end quite
bad issues still plagued me, and I was so tired of it all that after
looking into it, I decided this is my best and likely only option...
I'm trusting God will help me through this, as you say yourself, God can
help through human means.
Response #14:
I have no idea what "Cognitive Behavioral Therapy" is, so I'm not able
to offer you an opinion on that.
I think you probably have enough Bible knowledge at this point to be
able to discern for yourself, especially once it begins, whether or not
it is truly useful or worthless or even harmful.
If I had a serious medical problem, in addition to praying and
soliciting prayer, I would most likely seek medical attention. I don't
think there's anything wrong with that. On the other hand, I'm also not
a fan of unnecessary, "heroic" intervention, especially for something
that does not seem to require such efforts. Proportion and
spiritual common sense should rule the day here.
I do pray for you on this issue; I'll say a particular prayer for this.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #15:
I've been learning through the Lord's guidance an important lesson for
any believer struggling with doubt: God does NOT talk in the language of
"what if?"
What I call the "language of what if" is the anxious, often obsessive
worry or doubt that can leave one seeking answers, or in the case of OCD
sufferers like myself, desperately trying to prove or disprove it being
right, or even accepting it without question out of fear of some dire
consequence, a "better safe than sorry" attitude as I call it. There can
be other mental rituals or physical or verbal things done to ease this
too.
The belief of most of these people is that God is trying to "warn" or
"convict" them somehow through this madness, since these worries can
convincingly disguise as "God's voice" for many. I and countless others
have stories of trying to find God's will or just the answer to this
supposed fear that keeps coming up, thinking "If I just do this right,
do this enough, I'll be free, God will deliver me!"
It's like a dog chasing its own tail, leading nowhere but never-ending
circles. The truth that shatters this lie is the fact that to those He
indwells, the Spirit doesn't talk in cryptic signs and thoughts that
need to be "deciphered" to understand. When God is telling you
something, be it conviction or other sign, He leaves no room for doubt.
There's a clarity that simply cannot come from oneself, and it's not a
blaring alarm or "shouting over the PA", the voice of actual
conscience/whatever God's trying to say is quiet yet profound (not sure
how to word this, but you probably know what I'm talking about), not
shouting at the top of its lungs trying to intimidate you into obeying
like some angry ape.
And that's the thing. There's no peace in following these things. It
leads nowhere but more fear and feeling God's holding some sledgehammer
over your head for as soon as you decide not to listen. I had to have
this lie dismantled too to begin truly healing from all this madness
that drove my entire existence for so long.
Pray over this please, and if there's any prayers you need feel free to
share
Response #15:
This is very insightful. You are right that a great many believers
struggle with obsessive worry and doubt (which you are terming OCD). The
solution to it is drawing closer to the Lord through spiritual growth,
of course. The closer we are to Jesus, the more we trust Him and the
more confident we become that He loves us and that He is working
everything out together for good for us – which of course He is
(Rom.8:28: "And we know that, for those who love God, He works
everything together for good").
Ultimately, all excessive doubts and fears are indicative of weak faith,
and weak faith is faith that hasn't been fed enough truth, hasn't
believed enough truth, hasn't had that faith tested and tried and
tempered – the second phase of the Christian life which will only be
meaningful for those who have grown up in the Word to a certain point.
Wishing you and your family a very happy Christmas if we don't connect
again before then!
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #16:
[omitted]
Response #16:
Most believers are attacked in this way of unwelcome thoughts, some more
than others. Believers who allow this sort of thing to bother them
obviously will be repeated targets since the evil one uses tactics that
have proven successful in the past.
Once we start trusting the Spirit, things do get better. Of course,
walking closely with the Spirit and with the Lord are characteristics of
spiritual growth. So growth is the key.
I don't think these attacks themselves are sinful nor necessarily the
result of sin. But it is true that weak believers have a harder time
dealing with these things than strong ones do, all other things being
equal. But again, we all have to face different sorts of attacks, and no
two of us are the same, so we also have our own unique strengths and
weaknesses.
So it's not the attack that is the problem but the way in which we
handle it that could be. Therein, yes, we need to learn to trust the
Lord.
If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.
1st John 3:20 NIV
We learn as we grow to let these things go. When we stop worrying about them, start trusting the Spirit to take care of them instead of overly agonizing about them, they tend to dissipate and go away. That is especially true if we start making a habit of thinking about GOOD things (so that there is no vacuum in our mind that may easily be filled by bad things.
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
2nd Corinthians 10:5 NIV
(1) Therefore since you have been resurrected [positionally] with Christ, keep seeking after the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. (2) Keep thinking on the things above, and not the things on the earth.
Colossians 3:1-2
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable – if anything is excellent or praiseworthy – think about such things.
Philippians 4:8 NIV
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #17:
[omitted]
Response #17:
No worries, my friend.
I am and I will continue to pray for you about this.
It's hard to be alive in this day and age and NOT have been exposed to
all manner of drivel and dreck over the course of our lives. And even if
we are not, e.g., reading horrible novels today, well, we probably have
plenty in our memories for the evil one to stir up from one's we may
have read in the past (or movies, or music, or video games, etc.). So we
will always have to be keeping these things at arms' length – mentally
speaking. And with the Holy Spirit, we CAN do so. It's always going to
be a fight, but with God's help we can keep things down to a dull roar
so as not to let this sort of thing dominate our lives.
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Galatians 5:16 NIV
I have the strength to endure all things in the One who empowers me to do so.
Philippians 4:13
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #18:
Hello,
I came across your website while searching for answers. I recently had a
situation that has been very upsetting to me. I have been struggling
with dark blasphemous thoughts and was terrified of sin. Well one night
I got home and I was sitting down and then this thought came to me that
was like "I am done." I immediately kinda recoiled at the thought and
went into a panic. I told my wife about it and she was like well that
could mean anything. I then went and prayed several times that "Lord
this is not what I want to do. I don't want to walk away from you.
Please forgive me." Its been a week and I keep having this fear that I
have apostatized because whether intentionally or unintentionally I had
this thought because I was mentally exhausted of dealing with thoughts.
Can you please offer some insight? Will Christ forgive me?
I don't want to give up on Christ
Thanks
Response #18:
Good to make your acquaintance.
Of course, the Lord forgives us everything when we confess.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1st John 1:9 NKJV
Let me start by saying that I have received countless emails over the years from believers with similar stories. The first thing to point out is that all believers are saved – only unbelievers are not saved because they have not deigned to believe in Jesus Christ.
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
John 3:18 NKJV
Furthermore, only a believer would care enough about their salvation to
be upset or ask questions like this. We can't lose our salvation in an
instant. Apostasy is the complete death of faith and usually follows a
long downward spiral of turning away from the Lord to the point where a
person completely loses their faith, rejecting Jesus Christ completely.
But if a person does believe, by definition they are saved. Here is a
link discussing this process:
"Apostasy and the Sin unto Death".
The evil one and his followers are always looking to upset believers and
trip them up. If we are not doing "our job", namely, growing
spiritually, progressing through testing, and then helping others to do
so through the exercise of the gifts and ministries we've been given, we
do tend to be a lot more vulnerable to these sorts of attacks.
But if you believe in Jesus Christ, that He is the Son of God, the
God-man who died for our sins, then you are a believer and all believers
are saved. Only those who deny Him are not saved.
No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
1st John 2:23-25 NIV
The second thing to point out is that we have "the Word more certain" than anything we are experiencing, that is, scripture informed by the Holy Spirit (2Pet.1:19). The evil one is always trying to turn us away from the truth through all manner of experiences, but we believers need to keep in mind that the truth we have believed is more real than anything we might hear or see or think or feel. This is especially important to keep in mind in light of where we are on the eschatological clock.
"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."
Matthew 24:24 NKJV
Intrusive and unwanted thoughts are not from the Holy Spirit and so they
are not from God. The proper procedure is to reject them for what they
are, namely, harassment from the enemy, stirred up by the sin nature,
and possibly a manifestation of us not being on our best game, so to
speak, as believers walking through this world in the Word and by the
Spirit. If the latter is the case, then it is prudent to "get cracking"
with spiritual growth.
Here are some links on the problem you've bumped into (which may prove
helpful):
Who Controls our Thoughts and Emotions According to the Bible?
The Battlefield Within: Fighting the inner spiritual Struggle.
Spiritual Warfare IV: Demons, Demonic Influences and Satanic Methodology
Maintaining a Sound Christian Offense in our Spiritual Warfare (Peter #29)
Do feel free to write me back about any of this.
In Jesus Christ our dear Savior,
Bob L.
Question #19:
Thank you for your email. Just yesterday I asked the Lord to give me
some encouragement and He did. He showed me that this experience has not
only shown me that I persevered but it has produced an even more
steadfastness and resolve to not give up even more than before. Kinda
like a tree the wind blows harder and my roots just keep going deeper. I
need to remind myself that it’s not how hard I’m holding on to Him it’s
how He is holding on to me!
I was also reminded of this. The enemy wanted me to feel like oh a real
Christian would never have thoughts of giving up. And he seemed to pound
me in this for days but then I was reminded of these verses in Micah:
“Rejoice not over me, O my enemy; when I fall, I shall rise; when I sit
in darkness, the Lord will be a light to me. I will bear the indignation
of the Lord because I have sinned against him, until he pleads my cause
and executes judgment for me. He will bring me out to the light; I shall
look upon his vindication. Then my enemy will see, and shame will cover
her who said to me, “Where is the Lord your God?” My eyes will look upon
her; now she will be trampled down like the mire of the streets.” Micah
7 : 8 - 10 ESV
The enemy may beat me and batter me when I stumble and make me feel lost
but eventually the Lord will vindicate and restore me for He is
sovereign.
I am also reminded of how Moses, Elijah and Jeremiah did more than just
have a thought they spoke out loud to God they were done and God in His
Grace and patience didn’t respond in condemnation but He provided a way
to help them. In Elijah’s case He told him to calm down take a nap and
then eat something and you’ll be fine. How loving a Father He is to know
that He perfectly understands our frustrations and faults and knows how
dramatic we can be haha.
I’ve also learned that a thought is just that a thought. If it is
contrary to Gods Word I can dismiss it and move on. Something along the
lines of “I have no time to entertain such nonsense.” This is because we
have been given the Spirit of Truth and the belt of Truth. We cut down
the lies with the Sword of the Spirit.
I’ve been finding comfort in the Psalms. David seemed to face
discouragement and wanting to die or feeling like he had been overcome
but yet he still had a resolve to trust in the Lord.
Anyways I realize I am rambling now but thank you for your kind words of
encouragement.
“Anxiety in a man’s heart weighs him down, but a good word makes him
glad.” Proverbs 12 : 25 ESV
Your brother in Christ Jesus
Response #19:
Nice recovery! This is an excellent example of how to aggressively apply scripture and truth to times and circumstances when we are being challenged. We find David doing this often in the Psalms as well.
In God I trust, I shall not be afraid.
What can man do to me?
Psalm 56:11 LSB
Keep fighting the good fight, my friend – and feel free to write me back
any time.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #20:
Doc, what do you think about "intrusive thoughts"? Many people claim to have these, supposedly not being able to control these unwanted thoughts no matter how hard they try or how they try to do it...do you think this phenomenon is real or do these people simply have some desire to think such a way they're perhaps too embarrassed or ashamed to admit? I certainly had thoughts in the past it seemed there were no stopping, no matter how much I didn't want them, and they still can pop up from time to time, do you think perhaps I just am thinking those by myself and don't want to admit?
Response #20:
This is a common problem, especially for advancing believers. The devil
hits us wherever he can, and good believers are particularly sensitive to
feelings of guilt. Since/if we haven't actually done anything lately for
which we might actually feel guilty, prodding us to think wretched
things can be an effective way to trip us up.
The first thing is to recognize what is going on. The second thing is to
remember that God forgives us everything and anything when we confess.
The third thing is to keep this sort of annoyance in perspective – it's
not even as bad as telling a "white lie", but people often feel a lot
more guilty for "bad thoughts" than for such sins of the tongue. The
fourth thing is to remember that we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and
that He is infinitely more powerful than our sin nature AND any
combination of forces trying to use it against us. We DO have to believe
that, however, and we do have to turn ourselves over to Him when we need
such help, trusting that He will indeed help us here if we trust Him to
do so.
"Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit" says the Lord of Hosts.
Zechariah 4:6
As many as are being led [forward] by the Spirit, these are the ones who are [truly] the sons of God.
Romans 8:14
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
Galatians 5:16 NASB20
And don't get drunk with wine – which is dissipating – but instead keep on being ful-filled (i.e., making progress in spiritual growth) by means of the Holy Spirit (i.e., the means to edification in contrast to dissipation).
Ephesians 5:18
Here are some links:
Gird up the loins of your mind (in Pet. #29)
Sin, Fear and Forgiveness
Sin and Spiritual Transformation
The Battlefield Within: Fighting the inner spiritual Struggle.Who Controls our Thoughts and Emotions?
Sin, Salvation and Forgiveness: Claiming the Mental and Spiritual High-Ground
Spiritual Warfare IV: Demons, Demonic Influences and Satanic Methodology
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #21:
Why can't I make these thoughts go away? I'm supposed to have full control over what I think, at least according to Scripture, supposedly, but these thoughts that pop into my head without my consent no matter how much I try to not have them or ignore the idea of having them torment me, urges to make foolish oaths, perverse thoughts in general, I don't know what to do. I've been trying to force myself to believe I'm at fault, that surely I WANT to think such things at some level if I'm having such thoughts, but why do I feel so distressed about them and struggle so hard with them then? Please pray for me.
Response #21:
I'm sure I never said – nor does the Bible say – that we have "full control". The heart is the great battleground where we are really fighting this fight of faith. Since the sin nature has such an influence on us and also since we live in a world controlled by the evil one, of course we are bombarded by bad things from within and from without all the time.
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Jeremiah 17:9 KJV
What we DO have the power to do is to listen to the Holy Spirit rather
than listening to the devil and his minions. What we DO have the power
to do when such things occur or intrude is to reject them. We have the
right to say NO! We have the right NOT to entertain anything bad or evil
or tempting. We have a right to turn our hearts over to the Spirit and
let Him lead.
The more we are concentrating on the truth, the scriptures and solid
teaching about them, the easier this gets. Not saying it ever gets
"easy", but we can have victory in this fight. Giving up is not an
answer. Despairing is not an answer. We have to have faith – confidence
in the Lord – that He is with us and will help us, if we are determined
to do things His way, not exposing ourselves to things that we know are
a problem for us, but instead making greater efforts to devoting
ourselves to things that we know are spiritually beneficial for us. I am
praying for you. Do be sure to pray also on your own behalf too, my
friend – and trust the Lord that He will answer you (Jas.1:6).
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.
Romans 8:26 NIV
Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
Hebrews 4:16 NIV
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
1st John 2:1 NIV
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #22:
Thank you. I try to not entertain the thoughts but it's hard. It makes me feel weak of will and morals for not immediately rejecting some of the things that come up as well as I feel I should. Please pray for me.
Response #22:
I do pray for you. Just remember that you have the Holy Spirit indwelling you. He is God and His power is unlimited. Have faith and turn the hard ones over to Him. Be confident that God can do it and God will do it. Nothing is impossible for Him (Gen.18:14; Job 42:2; Jer.32:17; Matt.19:26; Lk.1:37; 18:27). Our job is to have faith.
Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."
Matthew 17:20b NIV
In Jesus,
Bob L.