Question #1:
WHEN THE DARKNESS SETS IN.
Hello Bob and family,
I don’t know if you’ve ever come across this PDF book NIGHT by Elie Wiesel
before – I have only just found it and read it in one sitting, to my absolute
horror. I have to tell you I wasn’t far into it when I just broke down in a very
uncontrollable burst of the worst tears and crying I have ever felt and I kept
sobbing Dear Father, how unworthy, how unworthy I am. I just had to tell someone
that, and you were the only person I wanted to share this grief with that I felt
for these survivors. I was seeing Tribulation much more clearly and in so many
paragraphs I was recalling scripture, knowing that this horror will happen again
in our day.
I’m sure, if you have read it you would understand my feelings which are so hard
to describe, it just makes me more determined in wanting to be a help unto
others when so many are now are just ‘the walking dead’ and so blind to the
events that will unfold in the next 9 short years. I am praying unceasingly that
He will reveal through the Spirit what He would have me do – even if it’s just a
small thing – if He can use me, then use me.
I am still trying to point others to ichthys but to no avail as yet, I guess I
haven’t yet come to the point where I can recognise a true lost sheep and
perhaps it’s because they’re few and far between but I’ll never stop trying for
Jesus’ sake. Being the age I am now the only thing that matters to me is keeping
my own salvation intact and trying my best to show who I am living for in the
hope that I can season my words with enough salt to create a thirst in others
for what I have – and it isn’t easy in this world when so many are going in a
different direction but I must keep on trying.
I can never express in words how much your efforts in creating ichthys has meant
to me and having told you my testimony before (the false churches that I once
belonged to) and the fact that I don’t want anything to do with any of them,
knowing their end, if I went to church for a million Sundays I could never have
the understanding of my Bible that you have given me and I can’t thank you
enough.
I’ll make this do for now dear Bob and again with brotherly love,
Response #1:
I'm keeping you and your family in my prayers. Thanks so much for your
encouragement, my friend, and for your good words (Ps.115:1).
I've never read this book but I've read a lot about the holocaust and WWII, and
I have seen Mr. W. on television several times. Skimming over this attachment,
it's always been amazing to me that individuals such as this could suffer so
much and yet become more alienated from God rather than being led to Him. But
that is a personal choice. There are in fact many believers who are only
lukewarm who in the near future no doubt will also turn away from the Lord,
"[who] when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which
for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away" (Lk.8:13 KJV). That is
part of the story of the coming darkness, one third of the genuine Church lost
to apostasy.
But there are two other parts as well, namely, the one third who are martyred
for the Lord, who "triumphed over [the adversary] by the blood of the Lamb and
by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to
shrink from death" (Rev.12:11 NIV). This is only possible with an enduring
faith, a faith which is not lukewarm but which loves the Lord more than anything
in this world. And there is also the one third which will "endure until the end"
(Matt.24:13), and will see Him return with their own eyes, having steadfastly
made it through all of the trials of the Great Tribulation with their faith
intact. This also will require great faith, founded on and built up in the milk
of the Word of God.
Where do all these wonderful believers come from? It must be the case that the
Tribulation will be for Christians what the holocaust was for the [unbelieving]
Jews of the last century. In the latter case, for most, even for great men like
Elie Wiesel, their lack of actual faith was confirmed and hardened, and they
came to look for solutions exclusively in the secular world – the Zionist cause
(when in fact only the Lord can truly regather the Jewish people), but some did
come to believe . . . and all of the poor young children we rightly lament are
in heaven today, having perished without the opportunity to choose.
In the former case, many Christians will likewise fall away, this time from
genuine though lukewarm faith – but more will endure, and half of these will be
willing to give up their lives rather than compromise their faith. All this must
mean that there will be opportunities to minister the truth once the Tribulation
begins, when the terrors of that coming time shake lukewarm Laodicea out of her
complacency.
(33) And those among the people who have insight will teach the people who will
be persecuted by sword (i.e., martyrdom), and flame (i.e., torture leading to
martyrdom), and captivity (i.e., imprisonment), and plundering (i.e.,
confiscation of property), for some time. (34) And when they are persecuted,
they will receive a little help . . .
Daniel 11:33-34a
So in terms of preparation, while it is a very human thing to want to provide
ahead of time for the material needs of those we love, I'm sure that the Lord is
more concerned with us preparing spiritually for the spiritual needs of those He
loves, many of whom we may not even have met or know about . . . and many who at
present are resistant to our good-hearted efforts aimed at encouraging their
spiritual growth here and now.
So keep up the great work, my friend! I know that this pleases the Lord and will
result in a wonderful reward for you on that great day to come!
Your friend in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #2:
Good morning Bob and family,
My days are spent reading and re- reading ichthys and I particularly enjoy
waiting on your Saturday postings; even they alone are such a help to both
myself and others. I can't help feeling sorry for those who write to you only
wanting to criticize you with their misguided beliefs and I can't help but think
by your answers, a soft answer turneth away wrath is something we could all do
with a dose of at times.
Firstly I must apologise for the question following because I know we have gone
over this before and I do thank you so much for your patience with me but the
question still gnaws at me.
To come straight out with it, I'm still troubled by the fact that when the
second half of Tribulation begins and Satan sets up a One World Government
through the anti-Christ and the mark being introduced to all, disallowing those
of us without it to buy and sell; I can't help but still think how will we live
in our own homes?
I understand all that you've said to me in the past and I don't have a problem
with that insofar as I know He will save those destined to be saved and I can
accept if I am marked for martyrdom, then I pray for the courage to face it.
I would assume that a One World Government would have to be instituted to allow
it to happen and implementing the mark won't happen overnight, it does cause me
to wonder just how long it would take as many things will hinge on its final
set-up. When it is finally in place world-wide and because we can't even pay
whatever council/government charges just to live in our homes, I can only think
they may/will be taken from us and given to someone with the mark. Where will
that leave you and I will we just have to walk away from them?
I can only think we will be on the streets' or something similar. But being on
the streets is going to place us in extreme danger exposing us for who we are,
which is why I still wonder, will He provide for us if we went into hiding. (I
know that there are hundreds of people [preppers] building basement type
fortresses and stockpiling food I don't mean anything like that.)
I just wonder if He will provide in some way as He did in the Exodus?
I understand from scripture you will be given a window of opportunity to come
out of her at some time late in the second half before she is destroyed but the
scripture isn't clear for the rest of the world to do the same. I can only think
because we are gentiles too like yourselves, then it would stand to reason that
He knows our situation as well and the Spirit would give us some guidance at
that time. Am I right in assuming this?
Because the U.S. (Mystery Babylon) will be a place of comparative safety until
this time (because the anti-Christ will still use it) the rest of the world
being under the anti-Christ's control, it does make me wonder if persecution
will be intensified here outside of the U.S. immediately after the mark and long
before the U.S. These are just some of the questions that I would like your
insight on as some people that I talk to will ask these sort of questions of me
and I would like to be totally clear on it to be able to answer in a way that
others will understand.
I am sure that by understanding Daniel 12:8-9 that the Spirit will cause us to
know what to do and when and I will continue praying unceasingly about it as I
don't want to do anything unless clearly prompted by the Spirit as I know it
could all be for naught.
I sincerely hope my continued question on this subject will only raise further
thought and encouragement to you I continually pray that He will preserve you
and that we both see Him together and that ichthys will have free course in this
ever darkening world even in the coming days.
As always dear Bob, with brotherly love,
Response #2:
It's always great to hear from you, my friend! I'm happy to discuss these things
with you any time, so please don't think of this as an imposition – it's "my
job" as well (so to speak).
I suppose the first thing to point out is that the identification of mystery
Babylon on my part is an interpretation. As I have affirmed numerous times, with
the end so near (again, according to the interpretation I have often published
and certainly believe), it's very hard to see how this identification could be
wrong, but that still needs to be said. The second thing from your point of view
would be trying to suss out in advance the situation as it will obtain "down
under" in the Tribulation. The western quadrant of the world, from which mystery
Babylon must come, is otherwise not specified in prophecy (for obvious reasons);
the east is only directly involved as far as scripture is concerned during the
Armageddon campaign. Which one your country belongs to biblically speaking is a
matter of debate. I have opined, since Revelation does say that antichrist will
rule the whole world but only after the mid-point of the Tribulation, that this
dominance may be somewhat less than direct and "hands on" in the case of the
east and other far-flung regions. We know that unless the Lord had "shortened
the days" then "no flesh" would have survived. So it is clear that the beast's
reign would be destructive of everyone and everything, given enough time to run.
Blessedly, it will not be, and the farther removed from his centers of power no
doubt the better. But there will be hard times for us all until the second
advent.
The departure commanded of believers from Babylon is occasioned by the imminent
destruction of that nation. Believers who are living elsewhere in the world will
be under no such necessity to move out with alacrity – the command very
specifically will be to "flee Babylon!". Again, I have opined that for those of
us dwelling in Babylon when the command comes, Jerusalem is the most logical
place toward which to flee. Once antichrist emerges from the darkness of the
north and summons the world to Armageddon, Israel will be the one place on earth
not under his control to any degree (after Babylon, which also revolted from
him, is destroyed). The danger for those not having allied themselves with the
beast who are also living at that time neither in Israel nor Babylon will not be
of the imminent destruction or invasion of their countries but that of being
dragooned into the vast army the beast will assemble to do battle with Christ at
the second advent. We know from scripture clearly enough of the horrific and
well-deserved fate of that army. No believer should be anywhere near that
campaign, but it may be that resisting recruitment will be difficult and entail
paying a high price in some cases. That is speculation since scripture doesn't
say. And on the other hand, we can expect most of the world to enthusiastically
join in, so perhaps there won't be enlistment pressure for most. We'll have to
wait and see.
Here is a passage I have been thinking about regarding your potential situation
– and indeed that of us all – during that difficult time:
Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.
Isaiah 26:20-21 NKJV
This would seem to indicate that what it is reasonable to suppose in any case is
indeed proper policy for the Christian during those dark times, namely, staying
out of public view as much as that is possible to do. Some prior preparation may
indeed be helpful in doing so.
As I have tried to suggest in the past, a balanced approach would seem to me to
be the best one in this as in most things. If we are doing nothing, that may be
too little; however, if we are devoting all of our time and energy to a strategy
of material preparation, then on the one hand our spiritual preparation is
likely to suffer, and on the other hand we stand to risk being very disheartened
if things don't go the way we anticipated – and in my own life experience,
things have never gone the way I've anticipated.
So part of the issue I am dealing with here as someone to whom others look for a
measure of guidance is a reluctance to give any encouragement to head down what
I see as a potentially very destructive path, namely, of falling into the trap
of hyper-preparation. That temptation would be very easy to succumb to even in
normal times; how much more so given what is happening in the world today and
what is likely to be happening in the near future. Christians need to recognize
that Jesus Christ is their security. This does not get us off the hook from
working for a living, for example, but while the Bible commends good hard work,
it also always points out the folly of storing up wealth. Applying that
principle to this problem would suggest that some normal, natural preparation is
not a bad thing, but that going "whole hog" as we say over here could well be a
big mistake, not only because of the potential waste, but even more because of
what it can do to the spiritual health of persons so involved. When we begin to
see our stockpile or preparations as our security, our relationship with the
Lord cannot help but suffer – just as when/if we begin to see our wealth (I'm
having to imagine this one) as our security, we will tend to rely on that rather
than on the Lord. And we do know or very well should know that the Lord can
provide for us no matter what happens. That again is not an excuse to sit on our
hands and do nothing at all; but it is the starting point from which we should
approach this problem. Anything done in faith that regardless of what happens
the Lord has it all in hand may be fine to do; anything that is done out of fear
that unless it is done everything will go wrong is at the very least not
manifesting much faith in the Lord. As is often the case, the very same exact
action can be right or wrong based upon the motivation of the Christian who is
taking it, whether it is being done in faith or in fear (Rom.14:23; cf.
Jas.4:17).
It's not much of an answer, I suppose, but perhaps it will give you some things
to chew on. Do feel free to write back about this any time!
Keeping you and your family in my prayers day by day.
Your friend in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #3:
Hello Bob,
Again firstly my thanks for responding to these questions and as usual, your
answers always give me something to think on and consider.
I suppose the main thrust of my questions relate to paragraphs 3 and 4 in my
email to you, which I’m sure you would understand would also come from others
who may ask me about it as well. I understand that these specific questions are
very difficult to answer on both yours and my part to another and I suppose it’s
because we really can’t say for certain until this situation presents itself. In
reading paragraphs 5 and 7, would it be wrong to have the skeleton of a ‘plan’
thought out, which wouldn’t occupy a vast amount of time – and only be a simple
plan tucked away in the back of our mind which includes minimal equipment that
one person can carry (that many of us already have and don’t require much time
to procure it) and be ready to move if and when prompted by the Spirit? (I
recall in a previous email you mentioned we may be constantly on the move.)
Again I would assure you unless I am prompted, I don’t want to place myself or
anyone else in danger in following any prior plan.
The reason I’ve put it this way is because if it does become impossible to live
in our own home – (we don’t know how that’s going to play out as yet but more
than likely, we will know when it happens) without even the slightest plan could
leave us in more trouble.
I enjoyed the passage from Isaiah and I suppose the first four lines could be
interpreted a number of ways, perhaps even as I am thinking but I would think
you would mean it to remain in your place, wherever that may be. I guess the
thought of not being able to buy and sell is still prominent in my mind in
regard to not being able to pay relevant charges to allow that. ‘Staying out of
public view as much as possible’ no doubt would be mandatory but in order to
survive we will have to mix with society somehow, unless He provides for us in
some way as He did for those in the Exodus. I can only think that a very high
level of faith will be required to realise and obey Matthew 6: 25 – 34.
I’m also thinking He will provide a safe place for the Jews who turn back to
Him, where He will nourish them for 3.5 years – you and others are given
instruction to come out of her at the appropriate time where you will flee from
it – it does raise a question for the rest of the world, if the mark is
world-wide and I’m sure it will be as it is specific, what avenue is open for
us?
Please don’t think Bob, that I’m ignoring your advice – far from it, what you’ve
said makes sense, it’s just because there are doubts still in my mind about
this. Perhaps my doubts can be related to the Israelites doubting Moses.
Again and as always dear Bob, with brotherly love,
Response #3:
I'm not the least bit worried about you. You clearly have "your head screwed on
straight". I don't think there is anything wrong with having contingency plans.
One principle to keep in mind with such plans, however, is the need for
flexibility – since plans never ever go exactly according to plan.
Matthew 6:25-34 is difficult for every Christian at all times – not just during
times of excruciating pressure; but it is exactly at times of such pressure that
our Lord demonstrates to us that His promises and reassurances in this regard
are absolutely worthy of relying upon. He is 100% faithful and as God cannot be
otherwise. So we really do have absolutely nothing to fear. If we for whatever
reason don't get around to making any plans or putting anything away against
that day, we will not for that reason be abandoned by Him. We may have some
"interesting moments", but that is no doubt going to be true in any case. What
we can do to mess things up is to get so wrapped up in planning and preparing
that instead of building up our faith in the time remaining we actually weaken
it because of over-reliance on what we do. So if we do plan, it should be with
in complete understanding that our plans may be completely foiled and may
completely fail to anticipate the future situations ahead – so that our mindset
should be one of complete reliance on the Lord rather than our plans. The same
goes for any preparations we make. We're not going to miss the resurrection or
suffer outside of the will of God on account of failing to put aside sufficient
canned goods et al., but we may very well do so if we get a case of
hyper-preparation syndrome and come to doubt His perfect provision and
providence as a result.
The Isaiah passage as with all other applicable passages gives us only some
general principles; the specifics we will have to find out at the time.
As to safe havens, the flight to the haven in the desert is only for the Jewish
believers in Israel at the Tribulation's midpoint. I don't see any way for
gentiles believers to be a part of that; it may be that some few who wish to go
and are allowed to go to Israel during the ministry of Moses and Elijah will be
included. But that is not the way scripture portrays it.
In terms of Babylon, the potential of things being better there than elsewhere
during the first half and possibly also into the second half of the Tribulation
is merely an informed speculation on my part. Things could be worse, of course.
I base my supposition of that potential on the fact that there will apparently
still be a large number of believers in Babylon just prior to her destruction –
hence the command to "come out of her my people" (Rev.18:4; cf. Jer.51:45).
I'm also not exactly sure where your country and NZ fit into all this; if part
of the east, it may be that your country too will be relatively untouched until
the very end; if part of the west, the same thing could apply. Clearly, Europe
and the Middle East, North Africa and Central Asia will be the places most
negatively affected by the events of the Tribulation. Of course the judgments
from the Lord will be worldwide (and here believers have every right to expect
to be spared, just as the Israelites were when Egypt was devastated). What the
minions of antichrist do when they come to power around the globe at the
Tribulation's mid-point is unknown at present and may remain largely so until it
happens.
I'm no Moses! But we may be in a position very soon to hear from him personally
about all this (and from Elijah too).
Your friend in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #4:
Hi Bob,
I read with interest your 6th paragraph, I had never thought of it in this way
and I wish I had your insight.
Yes I can ‘see and understand’ the need for spiritual growth right up to and
past the day – certainly more so than wasting time, (which may be to nought) on
things that we don’t have any control over and every email you respond to gives
me some food to grow just that little bit further.
If I could ask just one last question and it may be impossible to answer it
completely simply because as you have said, we don’t know exactly how things
will play out until it arrives. I’m interested to know your thoughts on when the
mark is implemented world-wide, which is going to disallow all without it to buy
and sell – how will we be able to live in our home, being unable to pay any and
all utility charges?
I would imagine that these same thoughts would cross the minds of many of
ichthys readers in other parts of the world, so I would hope that by my
questions and your responses that they would also benefit from them as well. I
thank you so much for your valued works in ichthys Bob, I hope you never tire of
it (I certainly won’t) and that He will preserve you safely until the day we see
Him.
Again and as always dear Bob, with brotherly love,
Response #4:
Thanks for all your good words, my friend.
The "when" of the mark of the beast is made very clear in Revelation, an
essentially chronologically organized book. The "revelation of antichrist", that
is, when he finally unveils himself to the world as the beast, will not come
until the Tribulation's mid-point when he takes his seat in the rebuilt temple
at Jerusalem and openly proclaims himself to be God (2Thes.2:3-4). This will
mark the point of antichrist's defeat of the only major power block left in the
world with the will to resist him, and following this revelation and session
"everyone who dwells on earth will worship him . . . whose names are not written
in the book of life" (i.e., have been erased for their active rejection of
Christ through accepting antichrist; Rev.13:8).
The institution of antichrist's worldwide religion and the placing of the mark
to indicate the level of fealty to the beast is something that will happen after
this point, albeit we can imagine that it will be a swift progression. This is
what will engender the Great Persecution, and that is why the second half of the
Tribulation is called "the Great Tribulation". So while things will be difficult
to say the least during the first three and a half years, for believers things
will become decidedly worse once the persecution begins. We will not be the only
ones to refuse to take the mark; there will also be, we know from all the
prophecies regarding the Millennium, for example, a sizeable number of Jews who
while not yet being willing to accept Christ, will also not be willing to take
the mark. Somehow they will survive so as to be regathered at the second advent,
thus fulfilling God's many promises to restore His people, and will become the
stock from which Israel of the Millennium will spring. They will survive no
doubt through divine providence – even though they will not believe in Christ
until they see Him return in glory. How much more should we who do believe in
Him and follow Him be confident in His deliverance of us, if that be the will of
God.
If anyone is to be taken captive,
to captivity he goes;
if anyone is to be slain with the sword,
with the sword must he be slain. Here is a call for the endurance and faith of
the saints.
Revelation 13:10 ESV
For those of us destined to be martyred for the glory of Jesus Christ, or to
endure captivity awaiting the resurrection at His return, such possibilities
have to be anticipated so as to be endured with faith that the Lord has this
specific purpose in mind for us – with a corresponding reward at the end of the
day.
As to commerce once this system of economic coercion is put into place, I can't
speak with confidence in specifics beyond what scripture actually says. I can
observe that in the history of the world all such attempts to regulate buying
and selling in Procrustean ways such as this have met with only mixed success.
Black markets and corruption are the natural offspring of all such measures. So
perhaps we will be able to buy Spam – but at twice the price on the black
market. And perhaps you will be able to pay your utility bill – but only after
liberally greasing the palm of the right official. It's good to keep in mind,
however, that even if we had a great amount of additional details about all this
it still wouldn't let us know what our specific situations are going to be
before the fact. We'll have to wait and see on all that. What I do know is that
God is faithful and perfectly and completely so. He has never and He will never
let us down. Whatever we have to suffer then – just as what we may be suffering
now – will be for His glory and the glory of His Son our dear Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ . . . provided that we are resolved to do things His way. And that,
after all, is how all the great believers of the past won praise from God,
namely, by faith (Heb.11:1ff.).
Keeping you and your family in my prayers.
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #5:
Hello Professor,
Thank you for catching this and thank you very much for your encouraging words.
It has definitely become clearer as to how I see my future ministry, my main
concern is that production is such a slow process. This is also an important
factor in me reconsidering not only my daily routine, but also the amount of
secular work I will do. I think some changes may need to be implemented.
Yes, the issue of blood isn't easy and is perhaps the one where the principle of
love should definitely be kept in mind. While I understand that the Law is no
longer in force and while I would not hesitate to eat a rare steak, I would
perhaps rather stay away from some dishes made almost solely out of blood and
the symbolic meaning of it as representing the work of our Lord is a part of it.
Not out of legalism or because it's a hard rule - that could be the preferred
thing to do for me.
I made some slight amendments and added a section for the application of the
principle of love today and one for greed. This is not to support the catholic
notion of gluttony as one of the "seven sins", but rather just to point to the
reader asking about food related sins that it is possible for one to fall into
the sin of greed in the context of food, just as this can happen with excess
drinking and other addictions and sinful habits. I have also seen that and it is
a sad view. I thought I would add this remark in case it helps someone identify
their area of weakness before it starts doing the damage. You can take a look,
it's only a couple of added paragraphs.
In our Lord,
Response #5:
You're most welcome, my friend.
As to your additions, to be frank, I liked your piece better without them. 3.4
is a little too specific for my tastes (in an area where that can be a problem
in my view); 3.5 perhaps has a point, but I think it is open to gross
misinterpretation by someone who is not completely on your wave-length.
That last issue is in an important point to keep in mind. When someone
speaks/writes in the capacity of a pastor-teacher of Jesus Christ, the more that
can be done to "head off" potential misinterpretation and misapplication the
better. Even if the principle taught is correct, if we see ahead of time that
some people will get the wrong idea, better to deal with that before the fact.
In this case, again, only in my view, I can see some people reading this and
becoming far too concerned about the issue of food to no good purpose and in
non-biblical ways. If I thought scripture made the same point with the same
emphasis, that would be a different story.
My old pastor, Col. Thieme, once taught a series, "Right-man, right-woman",
based on the obvious point that most of us need a spouse and that if we are
walking the way we should be walking in Christ, then the Lord will work things
out for our legitimate need to be answered in this area in a godly way. However,
MANY took this to mean that there was some "ideal" person out there as defined
by what THEY thought they needed – and more than that, wanted – and so devoted
most of their time and energy to finding "just that RIGHT one". Some even went
so far as to divorce their spouses to do so! Clearly, this was never what the
Col. had in mind, and for the rest of his ministry he would occasionally "riff"
on how this teaching had been so stupidly misinterpreted. And I am pretty sure
that if he had it to over again he would never have taught that series.
You are a pastor-teacher now in your own right. So what you teach is your
business. You are responsible to the Lord, not to me. But since you ask, I have
to give you my honest opinion. Parallel to telling people something positive and
open to interpretation which they then twist into something they really want
through lust is telling people something negative and open to interpretation
which they then twist into something they really dread through fear. Whenever
either of these things is potentially in play, sometimes merely quoting a few
applicable scriptures is sufficient (in my view).
Your friend and fellow worker in the vineyard of our dear Lord and Savior Jesus
Christ,
Bob L.
Question #6:
Hello Professor,
Thank you for your feedback - it's very helpful, as always.
I understand your point about being too specific in the section on the
application of the love principle today. I wanted to provide an example, as in
the area of food it's not easy to come up with one, but I agree with your point
and once the principle has been explained (I hope this is presented clearly
enough in the text), it is best to leave the application to particular
Christians. I agree with you and I have removed this section.
As for the section on greed - your understanding of the scripture and experience
as a Bible teacher not only sheds light, but it is quite remarkable how it
allows you to pick up all the potential problems with such sharpness. I am very
grateful for that. It is one of the greatest provisions of God's grace in my
life that I can be trained by you to minister. Before I sent the additions to
you, this thought exactly went through my mind - will this section be understood
correctly, particularly by someone who comes from a legalistic Catholic
background? Will they know exactly what I mean here? And what if they don't? And
you have rightly picked up on this issue which my own limited insight still
presented as a question mark.
I understand your points here also and hence wanted to ask how to go about this
issue. The reason I added this section is that without imposing any legalistic
norms on anyone, I would just like to signify the danger - if unrestrained, our
sinful nature can run riot and it often starts in areas which are, or at least
seem innocuous and legitimate. I have seen it with people who miraculously
become a believers only to then turn away and devote their lives to trivial
pursuits. As we all have also, I have seen people taken by addictions such as an
insatiable greed for food.
So the purpose of the remark is just a safeguard. It is much easier to overcome
any potential problem when it is only beginning to appear then to battle with a
fully developed addiction which dominates one's life, something I have witnessed
happening with food.
What do you think - is there a balanced way of including it? For example by
clearly stating that no legalistic norms should ever be given by anyone? Or
maybe being more specific and adding that no one should stand between us and the
Lord and if food was causing us to hinder our testimony and service, then this
is when we should be careful?
Thank you for your help, Professor - I really appreciate it.
In the grace of our Lord,
Response #6:
You're most welcome, my friend. And I want also to commend you for understanding
and seeing this point. Many people would have reacted rather than "getting" the
point – which I do think is an important one.
As to the issue in general, I suppose I have the advantage of having grown up in
American traditional Protestantism and having "cut my teeth" in American
evangelicalism – instruction by negative example, that is. I have seen and heard
and heard of many instances where individual Christians / pastors / groups /
churches / denominations have been offended by some behavior or other or have
been genuinely concerned that some behavior or other is bad / evil / destructive
. . . and as a result have jumped off the legalistic "deep end". Any Christian
with an ounce of spiritual common sense ought to know that, e.g., playing video
games all day to the detriment of everything else important in this life is
dangerous and self-destructive – and the same goes for drinking, gambling,
drugs, watching television, becoming a "groupie" for a rock band, or becoming a
"follow the team everywhere" sports fan, or allowing oneself to get absolutely
no physical exercise whatsoever, or closing oneself up in one's house and never
associating with other people, or eating too much, or eating too little, or
getting overly concerned (for "religious" or health reasons) about what one
eats, or giving far too little attention to the contents of one's diet . . . the
list is virtually endless. About some of these things, scripture does give
negative guidance, for example in condemning drunkenness. But even here, given
the magnitude and multitude of problems caused by alcohol addiction, it is
perhaps somewhat surprising how little negative scripture has to say about
alcohol generally and how much of a neutral and even positive nature it says in
this regard. And scripture says nothing, for example, about gambling, and not
because there was no gambling in the ancient world (there was plenty, and it was
just as potentially destructive as it is today).
Where scripture does have a direct statement that may honestly and genuinely be
applied to a "problem" about which we may be concerned, it is legitimate for a
pastor-teacher to bring that up . . . when the issue comes up. But preaching
anti-booze sermons just for the sake of doing so is merely attacking the
symptoms not the cause. And misapplying passages which don't really bear on the
"problem" one is upset about will do more harm in the end than good.
Real change for Christians only comes from the inside out. It cannot be imposed
from the outside in. Christians with "issues" (and we all have them) have to be
self-motivated – helped by the Spirit – to make appropriate changes, and that
motivation, along with the growing Christian character to stick with it, always
comes as a result of spiritual growth. In all such cases all such change will be
empowered by the Holy Spirit and will thus be as effective as the person is
willing to let the Spirit make it.
I grant you that there are individuals of great self-discipline (whether
naturally or having developed it through adherence to some system in this life
or a combination of both) who are capable, for example, of giving up alcohol or
drugs without such spiritual change. But such reform, while it is always a good
thing to be parted from destructive habits, can have no spiritually positive
effects in and of itself, and in some cases can actually be negative through
empowering a sense of self-sufficiency whereas in truth we need the Lord more
than even we mature believers have any real idea (2Cor.12:10). At all events, if
the change doesn't come from spiritual growth through the Spirit, then it is
just a case of whitewashing the tomb. Those in the family/group/church of the
person in question will no doubt be happy that "Bill" gave up alcohol, but they
will be sadly mistaken if they believe that he has made a spiritual turn for the
better just because of that outward change.
What can be done? I would choose instead to emphasize the positive. Most people
who are engaged in self-destructive behavior have deeper spiritual issues in any
case, and most also realize completely that what they are doing is bad for them.
But they themselves have to be willing to change. And if they really are willing
to be saved, then salvation will give them a
"new start for the heart"
(link);
and if they are already believers, then spiritual revival will have to precede
(or at least accompany) any outward changes they wish to make (for all such
debilitating behaviors are signs of spiritual torpor, especially if they are
getting worse and not better).
For the Galatians who were becoming enmeshed in just such a system of legalism
and who were in the process imagining that they were "good" because of just such
outward displays, Paul does lay out parameters of negative behavior, mostly so
that they may understand that by appearing righteous they were not sinless at
all – but he also lays out the truly good things they should strive for:
(16) But I tell you, walk in the Spirit and you will not carry out what the flesh lusts for. (17) For what the flesh lusts for is contrary to the Spirit's will, and the Spirit is opposed to what the flesh lusts for. Since these are diametrically opposed to each other in this way, what you are doing is not what you yourself choose. (18) But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. (19) The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; (20) idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; (21) drunkenness, orgies – and whatever is similar to all these things. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. (22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, uprightness, faith, (23) humility, self-control. Against such things, there is no Law. (24) Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its weaknesses and its lusts. (25) If we live because of the Spirit, let us also walk by means of the Spirit.
Galatians 5:16-25
If we are actually doing things the right way, we will naturally not be doing
them the wrong way. If we are really starting to walk "in the Spirit" – paying
attention to what He tells us, learning and loving and following the truth –
then ipso facto we will not be following the flesh when we are following Him.
In other words, the best way to rid ourselves of bad habits ABC or XYZ is not to
attack them directly or go chasing after solutions to deal with them; the best
way to achieve victory over any manifestation of the sinful flesh is by the
positive action of following the Holy Spirit more closely day by day in all we
think and do and say. If we are truly growing spiritually, and if we are truly
progressing in our walk with Christ empowered by the Spirit, then we will
naturally be letting all the other flotsam and jetsam of this life fall by the
wayside more and more just as a natural development of our growth and progress.
If we are doing what is right it will naturally overcome and reject everything
that is wrong – through the power of the Spirit to whom we are accommodating our
will.
This is not an instant process. We all have a great many "rough edges" and some
take longer to sand down than others. But the process of sanctification for
those who are truly dedicated to following the Lord is an all-consuming one and
will eventually bring us to a walk with Jesus Christ through this world that is
holy in all respects – to the extent that we are really willing to let ourselves
be changed through following what the Spirit directs us to do. And to the extent
that we are not, no self-improvement lessons or lectures or programs or sermons
are going to make any genuine differences, irrespective of what exterior changes
"for show" we might otherwise manifest.
Yours in our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
Bob L.
Question #7:
Hello Professor,
I understand all your points and I can now see how what I intended to be a
safeguard against greed that could creep in imperceptibly and in an area that
seems innocuous could be taken as a legalistic warning, as if I wanted to change
things from the outside. You're point that "if we are doing things the right
way, we will naturally not be doing them the wrong way" is very apt here.
I have written about this aspect of spiritual battle in the resource I'm
currently preparing, but that is only focused on our struggle with sin which
does include taking some preventive measures, whereas in a text like the one
I've sent you it is likely to be misinterpreted.
Professor - thank you for your help with this and I am hoping to forward you
this text I'm now preparing soon. I have committed a lot of time to it in the
past couple of weeks, but I'm not far off now.
In the grace of our Lord,
Response #7:
I appreciate your responsiveness to the truth, my friend. In the end, that is
the only way for any of us to make any spiritual forward progress.
I'll be looking for your file!
Your friend in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #8:
[personal details omitted] . . . that we would love to meet you. We sure enjoy your web site. Your writings were the topic all day yesterday with our friend. I think he is going to email you in the near future.
Response #8:
I'm very pleased to hear that you and your family are doing well and especially
of the spiritual progress you are making personally. Good for you!
I'd be happy to receive your friend's emails, and if I'm ever out that way, I'll
look you all up. But please keep in mind what Paul said about the reports of
himself:
“His letters are weighty and forceful, but in person he is unimpressive and his speaking amounts to nothing.”
2nd Corinthians 10:10
Your friend in Jesus Christ,
Bob L.
Question #9:
Hi Bob,
I just call myself a Christian and refuse to add in the adjective "Evangelical."
This is because "Evangelical" Christianity has turned into a spiritually dead
Pharisaical religion. I say this because even though I believe in inerrancy,
Genesis-as-history, sovereign election (but not to the exclusion of free will),
and other doctrines that put me at odds with Roman Catholics and mainline
Protestants, I have found that "Evangelicals" are too in love with their club to
actually listen to God's word.
Christian is also the only label that exists in the Bible.
Sincerely,
Response #9:
Labels are useful. They are also always somewhat misleading. That is why I say
on the site: "Although the Bible study materials found here are in the
Protestant, Evangelical tradition, this site has no denominational affiliation"
(emphasis added).
And of course the word "Christian" is not actually in the Bible either (see the
link: "The name Christian")
Question #10:
We are a small church in a small town. 11 months ago, the membership voted to
call our current pastor to our church. He had several thousands of dollars of
debt, 4 children, no savings. He accepted the salary package which included
housing in our small, old parsonage. About 6 months into his first year, he
became vocal about how the housing provided was woefully inadequate and they
wanted to find a home they could buy. Further research revealed his debt was too
great to get a loan for a house. They have their 4 children on state aid
insurance because they can't afford to pay insurance premiums.
They are asking the church to devise a plan to help them but a house and in
effect, raise his salary. His salary is already substantial with his utilities
and maintenance provided.
I am on the housing committee charged with the task of identifying a plan to see
if we can help. I asked if they were going to tell the housing committee about
the new baby and they said not now I asked them to pray about it because as a
member of the housing committee, I felt it was information the rest of the
committee should have.
I feel they are being deceitful, irresponsible, and not acting as a man of God
should act. A pastor is to be above reproach and with his finances in distress,
more children than he can afford, more debt than he can pay, I don't feel he
fits the criteria for a pastor.
Our next housing committee meeting is in two days and I have prayed and prayed
but am seeking guidance God may provide through you. Please help.
Response #10:
Good to make your acquaintance. As to your question, it is an indisputable
biblical principle that those who do the teaching in a local church are worthy
of their keep. The Bible is very clear on that point (see links below), but says
nothing about the "how much" question. One of the best seminary professors I
ever had made the reasonable suggestion that a pastor ought not to be paid a
great deal more than the rest of the congregation makes (somewhat unfair and
unsupportable), but also not significantly less than the rest make (since that
is also somewhat unfair and puts him at a disadvantage in terms of pastoral
authority). That would be the main prism I would use to evaluate this aspect of
the question.
Of course, the Bible commends supporting those who teach the Word of God. I know
nothing about your church, but it is a fact that in the vast majority of cases
pastors do not teach the Word of God in depth as the main thrust and purpose of
their ministry. That is not entirely their fault, mind you. Even if a man is
prepared to teach and desirous of teaching, most congregations today want a
traditional service with a ten to twenty minute sermon (and sermons are not
teaching), with the pastor being the administrator in chief and doing a lot of
"calling". There may also be "nod to God" Sunday school classes that read
commentaries or discuss issues, but that is also no way to provide the people of
God with the spiritual nutrition they require to grow up spiritually and develop
faith powerful enough to pass the serious testing that may come in this life.
True growth and preparation requires the truth, taught with authority directly
from scripture in an orthodox way and in sufficient depth, quantity and quality
to lead forward all who are willing to follow. If your pastor is such a man,
sufficiently prepared in the original languages, well-versed in the doctrines of
scripture and "able to teach" (1Tim.3:2; 2Tim.2:24), then you have a real prize
on your hands, one that may be worthy of exceptional support. But if not, or if
the congregation is not particularly interested in making spiritual growth
through attention to the truth of scripture its purpose for existing as a church
(and that is in fact the only purpose for an actual "church" of Jesus Christ),
then it doesn't really make much difference one way or another.
Here are those links:
Pastoral Support, Pastoral Preparation, and the Purpose of Assembly
How much should we pay the pastor?
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #11:
Dear Bob,
Our small group of guys is looking for a new study. We had been into one of the
MacArthur studies. My problem is we spend 13 pages on three words (like in
Ephesians) I checked out some of your studies and found it to be far greater
then just end times. But also far above most Christians like our group.
Wonderful content but I knew right away when you use words like Ichthys.
I was drawn to subjects like - essential Doctrine of the Bible - Theology: the
study of God -or the study of Salvation. Your focus is on Christian men and
women far above our intellect. Let me know if you know of any others, at our
level you might recommend.
Response #11:
Thanks for the good words. My suggestion: try the
Peter Series (at the link). It
starts off with very short lessons.
In Jesus our Lord,
Bob L.
Question #12:
Hi Dr,
I just want to point out that you are more than welcome to communicate our
emails in the weekly posting with any appropriate redaction you think is
necessary.
Your ministry always come to mind when I think of what my potential ministry
would be apart from walking the walk of Christ and witness for him in my daily
walk. Can a ministry be a subset of another ministry? What I want to do,
obviously not in the flesh and need your prayers to help, is to communicate your
topical ministries in this place. I strongly believe in the 7 days of human
history and we are close to the return of our Lord and Savior Christ. People who
have access to your internet God can readily direct them to your site. But what
about people who do not?
Maybe I was ordained by the perfect knowledge of God to meet you and to grow
from you spiritually to bring the truths He enlightened to you to others here.
With your permission, I would like to do the following and will need your help:
Provide a topical series on your following works: 7 Days of human history and
Coming tribulation. Where I would need your help is to help with the structure.
I would put the structure together, email it to you and then you can tell me if
the structure for the lecture series is appropriate. I will be praying for this
over the next couple of days and would like your input, particularly as it
relates to using planted ministry to reach others. I guess all spiritual mature
Christians use planted ministry, it is called the Word of God (the bible)
I believe one other benefit is it will help me really understand and dive deeper
into His word by doing these series.
In Christ Jesus our Lord
Response #12:
Thanks! I would be more than happy for you to do so! The Lord died for everyone
and everyone is offered the Gift of Jesus Christ – and everyone who has accepted
Him as their Savior is encouraged to grow, progress and produce for Him. But how
can they do so without a teacher?
I think your outline is fine, my friend. When it comes to teaching material to
others, especially face to face, what "works" in terms of writing my not be the
best way to proceed orally. Also, what you say here about diving deeper is
exactly true. The best way to learn something is to teach it. That is because
when one is aware that one will have to explain the principle(s) in question to
others – or when one is queried on a given point – it forces a more detailed and
deeper investigation than mere casual reading would ever produce.
I'm happy to give you my take on anything you do. I will also say, however, that
the key to all successful teaching is mastery of the material. If you really
"know it", then you will find a way to "teach it". We are all different in how
we would do so just as every class is different in the way they will receive it.
So just like no battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy, so also no
lesson plan ever survives contact with students. You have to be flexible in how
you explain things, spending more time and coming up with more examples and
proofs where the students are not getting it or are skeptical, e.g.
This is an exciting thing, my friend! I would recommend planning, yes, but
planning that makes you really learn the principles, verses, proofs, and come up
with teaching examples that would help a ten year old understand.
Your friend in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #13:
Dr., thank you. I am getting a glimpse of what the Lord is doing. He is
preparing me for teaching. I was just asked to read a scripture for our bible
study today and I chose Rev 3:14-22, Church of Laodicea and it was received very
well, thanks to the Spirit. I think I was bought to learn how to teach His word
and using your materials to do so.
I will get on this right away and make my intentions known to person who runs
the bible studies here. I think this will be a fun but challenging journey
because some of your materials are controversial, for instance Genesis Gap and
non-rapture, etc but biblically sound. I will have to make sure I can really
explain it. It will really be exciting.
In Christ Jesus our Lord
Response #13:
I'm thrilled to hear that in spite of the situation you are using it for good.
That is certainly the Lord!
I am praying for you in this situation, my friend. Nothing is impossible for the
Lord.
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #14:
Hello Robert,
Thanks for your last teachings which you sent several weeks ago. Hope you are
well. I prefer to read your articles than the robotic ones:)r
Regards from Tasmania
God Bless
Response #14:
It's good to hear from you in any case! I'd rather read as well, but some users
of Ichthys like to listen to these studies when doing other things (commuting
for example – I can relate to that), so I'm very grateful to Chris B. for
putting in all the time and effort on this. He has done a truly stellar job in
my opinion, entirely on his own initiative. If it depended upon yours truly
reading a script into a microphone with edits on edits for hours and hours on
end, it would never have happened (way too much on the plate to even think about
it).
Wishing you a happy winter(?). We are roasting here at the moment.
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #15:
Dear Professor,
This is wonderful news about the MP3 files, thank you!
I had a quick listen and I do really like it - I am looking forward to going
through them in more detail once I merge onto the Coming Tribulation series
(still on SR Part 5).
I trust all is going well with you? I shall be getting back to the previous
email you had sent me a while back so no need at all to reply to this.
I am delighted to witness the progress of your ministry and these additions that
have taken it to another level. All possible through God’s grace.
For the glory of our Lord Jesus,
Response #15:
Great to hear it! And I hope you are doing well, spiritually, physically and
professionally.
Thanks to Chris B., I've just now put up four more MP3 files (SR 2 and a special
short).
As far as things here go, I could certainly use some prayer support regarding
the my job. Thanks in advance!
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #16:
Dear Bob,
I shall be looking through these audio files soon - I very much look forward to
it and thank you for letting me know. Send my sincere and heartfelt thanks to
Chris B!
It just so happened that yesterday I was looking through different courses from
Talbot, Dallas, and Chafer seminaries after finding the links on your website.
It was more about exploring potential options for the next few years for me and
avenues for ministry (teaching?). My eye was drawn to a masters in Theology or
Biblical Studies. Looking through the module content I was keen for a course
that offered strong emphases on Greek and Hebrew, particularly after reading
some of your mail postings on preparation for ministry. I was surprised/shocked
to see the lack of emphases put on the languages in most of the post-graduate
courses designed to prepare people for ministry.
Anyway, the reason I mention this is that this has also made me realise all the
more the amount of effort, investment (financial and time), dedication and
sacrifice that people such as yourself, your dear friend Carmen, and Curtis Omo
must have put in to be able to get to where you are today, and above all, feed
people like me. Hence why I am extremely saddened to hear about the situation
that you and your colleague are in. Sounds like academia can be just as ruthless
as elite sport - but through the grace of God I am confident these things will
be worked out for the good as you said.
You assuredly have my prayer and support. I shall be praying throughout this
week. Let me know once you have news of the meeting. We know that the Lord is
capable of the most spectacular of deliverances - not only through our reading
of Scripture but also through our own personal experiences and witnessing the
testimonies of our brothers and sisters on the front-line.
You have my prayer and I shall eagerly be awaiting news on this front, along
with everyone here at Ichthys.
In Jesus, Who worked out our salvation with the most spectacular of all
deliverances,
Response #16:
I did indeed let Chris know about your very positive report.
Thanks so much for your prayers, my friend. And thanks for you very encouraging
words. They are most appreciated.
Yes, seminaries usually only offer enough Greek and Hebrew to allow someone to
pick them out of a line-up. Those who do "concentrate" somewhat on language tend
to use extremely flawed methods based upon incorrect grammatical paradigms set
up years ago and misinterpreted by present day users. Coming from an intense
Classics preparation at the University of Illinois to Talbot, I found this
maddening in the extreme. Suffice it to say that if a person doesn't know Greek
or Hebrew before they get to seminary the level of competency it's possible to
achieve at seminary, even if one goes all the way to a Ph.D./Th.D, is very
limited – unless it's done on one's own after the basics are learned. But of
course it's possible to do that without seminary at all. I greatly benefitted
from my seminary experience; the largest part of that, however, was the great
individuals I met there who were all out of or quickly attracted to Col.
Thieme's ministry (like my friend Curt Omo); another benefit of seminary was
learning by way of negative example all of the crazy and incorrect assumptions
the traditional approach has on everything from evangelism to theology to
exegesis; very little of the benefit had to do with language: I got no help on
Greek there, some help on Hebrew and Aramaic – but that would have been
insufficient except for what I came in with (two years of BH and one year of MH
from Illinois) and what I put in on my own there and afterwards. I did have a
good church history prof. – but one can read books on church history without
going to seminary and paying for the privilege.
I'll let you know what happens but don't be shy about writing back if you don't
hear from me. I do suffer from absent-minded professor syndrome after all.
Your friend in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #17:
Dear Bob,
This is a wonderful report! Praise be to our Lord! Thank you so much for keeping
me in the loop - you definitely do not have any "absent-minded professor
syndrome”!
I had been praying for both you and Carmen daily and assuredly without any
coincidence my prayers were directed towards almost just what you described -
that your case be upheld persuasively, blameless and without any fault. No
doubts that the collective prayer of everyone uplifting their petitions on your
behalf, as well as your own, were heard. I am delighted to hear that this
outcome has proven to be far better than initially anticipated.
Situations like this remind us of the faithfulness of our Lord, particularly in
what we initially consider to be desperate situations with limited hope. As you
once wrote in one of your responses on our Lord’s prayer (I have just been going
through notes on Matt.6:9-13 today) - we pray not for His sake but for ours. We
ask and we know that He hears us. We ask because we need to ask, not because He
needs to hear, but we need to be reminded that He has already heard.
I shall continue to hold this in prayer both for you and Carmen for the working
out of the rest.
Thank you also for your previous response and your useful insights with regards
to the study of the languages. I am aware that you have many email postings on
this on Ichthys that I plan to read over the coming months. Our mutual friend's
example of mastering Hebrew and Greek independently is truly an inspirational
and remarkable one done in the power of the Spirit. It is something though I am
not sure I would ever be able to attain to (and which I am not sure whether I am
called to yet - I need to spend more time in prayer on this part). I do at times
feel a ’nudge’ towards teaching, that’s for sure. This seems to have grown
recently. And I do know if I am to consider teaching the Bible in any serious
capacity, mastery of the languages is something that definitely should be on
one’s radar. If you did, on the other hand, have any recommended resources on
where to start that you think I should explore (for someone who has no
understanding whatsoever), that would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks once again for this noteworthy report!
In our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,
Response #17:
Thanks!
I most definitely felt the power of the prayer support I received, and couldn't
have done what I needed to do without out . . . and wouldn't have received the
positive result I received without it. God is good!!!
I don't think I ever would have gotten anywhere with Greek and Hebrew (etc.)
without university level face to face instruction – at least not until I got to
a certain point in all of the languages I've studied.
On resources, check out the "Greek Language Study Resources" page and the
"Hebrew Language Study Resources" page. I can certainly recommend specific books
(such as Reading Greek for that language [the RG grammar also would be needed]
and Lambdin for Hebrew), but it's mighty difficult to get a purchase on either
language without getting the pronunciation correct and that's hard to do on
one's own (not to mention other issues).
Yours in our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
Bob L.
Question #18:
Hello Bob,
Thanks for your insight. Over 25 years now, I have been blessed to have been
able to connect with men like you, Ravi Zacharias - Oz Guinness - John Stott and
others. Its important to dig deeper in search of the truth.
I did a quick review and will spend more time later - What a gift. Do you have a
title list?
Response #18:
Glad you were able to find that.
Each of the major series has its own title page: click the link: "Ichthys Navigation" and select/click the button you want.
There is a subject listing (click the highlighted link).
There is an index to where original translations occur (at the link).
There is Google-powered Ichthys-only site search (at the link).
And for email postings such as you just accessed, there is a complete listing of back postings at this link: "Previous postings".
Just let me know if you have any trouble finding anything, and I'm happy to help.
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #19:
Bob
Is there a site that tells about who you are - what is IXOYE what is ICHTHYS
Your focus appears to be Eschatology
ON the other hand you offer papers on
Theology
Angelogy
Anthroplogy
Hamartiology
Christology
Soteriology
Pneumatology
Peripateology
Ecclessiology
Bibliology
You also offer studies on Satan and the coming tribulation you also offer
studies on Peter.
Who are you - educational background etc - is there a page that offers this?
Where do you fit with Ravi - Guinness - Stott - Graham - MacArthur etc.?
Respectfully
Response #19:
Try these (just click the link):
The last one has further links on all this.
Happy to answer any specific questions you might have.
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #20:
I wanted to ask you for help with finding study resources for a new believer has
no access to any other teacher.
Can you recommend anything basic besides Ichthys in the area of essential
theology and also church history? To get a framework on the Bible, the church
and its history would help a lot, but I want to make sure the source is
reliable.
In our Lord,
Response #20:
The only other thing on church history I might recommend besides the resources
discussed on the site is the multi-volume set, History Of The Christian
Church by Philip Schaff. It was, apparently, translated into your friend's
native language at one point, but whether or not it is still in print I have no
way of finding out. It is a long work, and it is not without its problems, but
at least it presents things from a Protestant point of view. However, if Walker
cannot be found in your language, I'm not that confident about Schaff. It's the
only other thing I have ever made much use of, however.
On theology, Charles C. Ryrie's A Survey of Bible Doctrine is not awful.
It is, sadly, pre-Trib., as is Chafer and Walvoord's Major Bible Themes –
but at least the first mentioned has been very widely distributed in English so
perhaps it's been rendered into your language as well. There are also the works
of Francis Schaeffer – he's not my cup of tea, but at least he was a Christian;
these were extremely popular in the 80's and he was based in Switzerland, so
maybe . . .
Your friend in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #21:
I am looking for a commentary set that is expository in nature. One where I can read the scripture and the commentary at the same time. Is there something like this? I've read John Gill which is a bit wordy and difficult. I've read some of John C Clark which is likeable. But there are many commentary sets to choose from. Can you recommend one?
Response #21:
To be honest, I've never found commentaries of much use, personally, since they
almost always manage to miss the true biblical point of any given passage in
spite of much ink spilled. However, here is a link that will lead to others
"Can
you recommend a good commentary".
Please feel free to write back about this or any particular Bible questions you
may have.
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob Luginbill
Question #22:
Thank you for the materials and may the Lord continue to bless you and your
ministry. It is in my prayers. I am happy and elated you are willing to converse
and help me in this endeavor. I believe with His and your help, we can really
reach many people here.
What I hope to accomplish in terms of teaching with the Spirit and your help is
in this flow:
1. Eternal Rewards - Theme Your walk with Christ is for your benefit
2. 7 years of human history - The time is short therefore accruing eternal
rewards through spiritual growth is paramount
3. Coming tribulation - By understanding the times we are in, we can better be
prepared for the troubles head
Response #22:
You're most welcome my friend. I'm very encouraged by your report, my friend,
and I'm praying for a very fertile ministry for you.
Keeping you and your family in my prayers, my friend!
Your brother your brother and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and
patience of Jesus Christ (Rev.1:9).
Bob L.
Question #23:
Hi Dr,
The rewards lesson is coming along nicely. Your work is so complete and condense
that it is a treasure trove of information. I hope to have it to you by end of
next week. I do see where the Lord's hand is in some aspect of this trial. There
are people who approach me to talk about issues they are having and ask me to
pray for them. I sit down and biblically try to help them with their problems
and pray with them. That is a blessing.
How is our friend's health doing?
In Christ Jesus our Lord
Response #23:
You're more than welcome. Our friend is back in the UK. He had extensive testing
done. They eliminated some possibilities for what his problem might be
(including some that had worried him), but the test results will be some time in
coming in, I gather, so we don't have a diagnosis yet. But when I last heard
from him he seemed relieved that this had been done. We shall keep praying – for
a sound diagnosis and a (hopefully not too invasive) course of treatment.
I'm thrilled to hear that you are already beginning to minister, my friend! I
knew that the Lord must have work for you to do. I keep praying for you daily.
Your friend in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #24:
Hi Dr,
I would like a prayer if you don't mind. One of the things i realize is that the
Lord is putting many ministry opportunities in front of me. I have been asked to
lead prayer group, read a passage of scripture before church service, and also I
am part of the choir.
With the rewards series I am putting together, it has taken time. Your work is
so extensive and rich with the Word that you can make a ministry of dissecting
your work in chunks and disseminate it. When I am doing this particular study, I
realize that to be the case. I have not even touch all the CT, SR, BB, Peter
Series.
I am struggling between learning Greek and doing these series. These series take
a lot of time to develop and I am only doing a small portion of your work but I
believe they will be more meaningful for me and for this body here if I continue
this path rather than focus strictly on Greek. I just don't have the time to do
both extensively. I believe the series will edify the church and me more than
the Greek edifying the church.
Please pray the Lord will give me the appropriate direction. Right now, I am
going full bore on your series and setting aside Greek, that is what I want to
do but need your opinion and prayer as well.
Also pray the Lord will help me in choosing to do His will. I can see what some
of what the Lord is doing with me. He is helping me develop a ministry, what
that will be I don't know. The issue I have, and it is all me, I am like Paul
where he states he wants to be with Christ but to be here is more needful for
the believers.
Response #24:
I pray for you every day and will add a prayer for guidance on this point –
although what you say here has both the ring of truth and of spiritual common
sense. I spent at least several years intensively studying all of the materials
of my mentor, Col. Thieme, before I ever got to serious language study et al.
And the truth of scripture is the most important thing. So I think it makes
sense to take the most important things first. Good for you!
I'm very proud of you, my friend. I know that the Lord is using you, I am very
gratified to hear that you are in the process of earning a wonderful heavenly
reward by serving our Lord.
Keep up the good work, my friend!
In my prayers always,
Bob L.
Question #25:
Hello Professor,
Thank you for your prayer for our friend - I think she has a real chance and she
has in fact herself told me that she saw her current spiritual state - one of
some chaos and uncertainty - as only a stage she was hoping to get out of, but
she didn't really know how. We know that truth is the answer and I pray that she
does accept it.
Professor, I have finished reading the Old Testament, I think it's the second
time since I got saved. I feel that time is ripe for me to make changes in my
daily study and production rhythm. I have felt that for a while now. I wanted to
get some advice from you. I know that these issues are always individual and I
will have to find my path in this, but I wanted to draw from your wisdom and
experience. Your guidance from the beginning has given me the direction and
prevented me from spending time looking for and going through study resources
which are not worth the short time we have here. I know that the Spirit plays a
critical role here and that's also how I know I need to make refinements now.
[details omitted]
In the grace of our Lord,
Response #25:
I certainly hope and pray that this will all get figured out so that you can
make a full and quick recovery, my friend. God has His purposes for all things –
and it seems to me that He has important work for you that will require your
good health to complete. By the way, I took the liberty of placing our friend on
the Ichthys prayer list as well.
As to your study regime, my first impression was, "well, this explains why he
isn't feeling well – he's working way too hard!" Honestly, there are limits to
what we do, physically speaking. Not all of us are the same, it is true, but I
have to wonder from reading this whether or not you have been pushing yourself a
bit too hard. I will leave that to you to sort out.
As to the content, it seems you have a good system already, and it also seems
that the changes you are considering would not be bad. We have limited time and
energy – even if we do push ourselves – so we have to make choices. In general
terms, I will say what I have probably said every time, namely, that the top
priority is the Bible itself. The Bible is so much more important than ancient
history, church history, textual criticism, theology and commentary beyond all
comparison. I certainly understand that these other things (and other things)
are important (I'm responsible for directing you to many of them, after all),
but in any edifice it's important to get the foundation solid and right – and
the scripture is the foundation of all. Hard to distinguish from that is the
study of Greek and Hebrew since the Bible is written in those two languages
almost exclusively. But since until one becomes very familiar with the original
languages, it is difficult to get all one needs personally from scripture from
the original, reading translations of the Bible is also important. Everything
else, much less so. I think by now you have probably learned enough, read
enough, seen enough of the other genres and tools to know their strengths and
weaknesses, so that using them on a case by case basis (instead of trying to
work your way through them in a systematic way) might be a good guiding
principle. One can never become too familiar with the Bible in translation, and
one can never read it enough in Greek or in Hebrew. Everything else is a distant
second place. I do think that the studies at Ichthys (and Curt's material) are a
good supplement until a person gets to the point of a full-blown personal
ministry (but I am clearly biased here). I'm not as clear that traditional
theologies are as important once a person has cut their teeth on some basic
traditional things so as to have an idea of "what's out there".
The last thing I would say is that the more teaching you do, the more you learn.
You should not feel bad about learning and developing a deeper knowledge of
points you are asked about as you research your answers. That is a logical thing
and a blessed thing – it certainly has been for me (I have learned a great deal
from you and through you). And, after all, that is why we are doing this,
namely, to help others in the Church and also to help ourselves as we grow
closer to the Lord through His truth. I have found over the years that while
hasty answers are usually a mistake, timely ones are more helpful and more
appreciated than ones which are long in coming. You have a bit of a dilemma
there, because you have started to feed others before you are precisely where
you'd like to be personally in the languages et al. But if time allows,
ministering the truth ought to be a priority (only personal Bible reading in and
out of translation and personal Bible study should come first in my opinion).
Keep up the good work, my friend, but remember that we all have limits. For that
reason, putting the most important things first is always the best policy.
Your friend in Jesus Christ,
Bob L.
Question #26:
Hello Robert
I was checking on the internet on notes that we can use for in- house training
of Pastors. I came across your notes, I believe the Spirit of God led me there.
Thank you for ministering to the world in such a manner. May the good Lord
remember you. I am a pastor, leading a church in the rural community of South
Africa and I am called to plant churches. I always wanted to train pastors even
with the little knowledge that I got (only have Hons in Theology with South
Africa Theological Seminary). The members in my church are poor people yet ,that
does not stop us form expanding. I am struggling, the church cannot even give
allowances to pastors but ee are moving on. We will use your notes more often. I
felt I could just say thank you and speak a blessing of Psalm 91 upon you.
I am a middle-aged woman of years and my journey has not been smooth. I am
originally from Zimbabwe
Regards
Response #26:
Good to make your acquaintance.
It's always a pleasure to find out that these materials are aiding the spiritual
growth and progress of my brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ.
You are most welcome to everything Ichthys has to offer – and do feel free to
write with questions if and when you have them.
Thanks also for your encouraging testimony!
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob Luginbill
Question #27:
Hi Dr,
Thank you and much appreciated.
On the anticipated study, I need your help in coming up with a theme.
Thanks for looking over these materials and giving your comments. I appreciate
all your help in this and thanks a million. You just don't know. Next to tackle
will be 7 days of human history. This one will be a doozy.
In Christ Jesus our Lord
Response #27:
You're most welcome as always, my friend.
One thing though: I'm not much on "themes"; I'm not much on alliterated bullet
points; I'm not much on clever sounding titles and the like. I've never liked
sermons and see very little value in them, and that sort of thing ("themes")
falls too close for comfort. I don't know any other way other than to "teach it
like it is, whatever it is". I let the teaching dictate the organization. If
that doesn't square with the esthetics of others, so be it. I had to put up with
too much of that in my pre-ministry and seminary days. No offense meant!
I'm very proud of you, my friend! Keep up the good work for Jesus Christ.
Therein lies unimaginably wonderful eternal reward.
Your friend in our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #28:
I agree with you and please no offense is taken. Because your studies are rich,
I need to break the material down and the best way is via bullet points so when
I discuss, I have some direction on what to say. This is critical because you
have many individuals who try to teach and teach inaccurately because they don't
have structure and above all the gift.
With time and study, I will be able to develop a full blown teaching based on
the riches I find. I think it is more a less of not wanting to be inaccurate
rather than knowledge.
Response #28:
I just had a look at your outline and addendum and I have to say I am very
impressed. This represents very good work on your part and will no doubt be very
helpful to anyone who may hear you speaking on this subject. I was particularly
impressed by the addendum which obviously represents a great deal of good, hard,
original work on your part.
One thing to keep in mind before actually teaching orally: try to have the
outline you are planning to deliver firmly in your mind through practice before
you begin to teach. One thing I have experienced many times and seen in my
students all the time is that someone who is well-prepared like you are will
imagine that an outline such as you have produced can be delivered and explained
in a very short time. In fact, it would take very many hours to deliver what you
have here, not even counting the addendum. Also, a few key passages are often
better in oral presentation than a long list. Try to have the ones which are the
most important for your presentation marked with bookmarks or in some way which
will allow you to find them easily – transcribing them onto a separate sheet of
paper is not a bad idea. I'm looking forward to seeing the development of your
ministry!
Good work, my friend! I am sure that if you persevere in this course you will be
earning a wonderful reward yourself!
Your friend in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #29:
Thank you for reviewing the work and your compliments. To Him first is all
praise due and to you for your diligence stewardship and mentoring.
One question, I am really studying the 7 days. I believe the work is Holy Spirit
inspired. Why do you think there is such resistance of your timeline? If they
pray, read it and believe, it is inspired work. I hope to do it justice when I
develop an outline around it.
In Christ Jesus our Lord
Response #29:
You are most welcome.
I have no doubt that anything and everything I've written which really is "good"
in God's eyes has been aided by the Holy Spirit (more Him than me); however, I
would reserve the word "inspired" for the Bible alone. That is the only work
which is inerrant (you have already probably found many typos in my stuff, lol).
But I do appreciate very much your enthusiasm for the teaching of the Word.
When I was much younger and was first exposed to the writings of my mentor, Col.
Thieme, I had the same idea: "Gee, if people would only just read a little bit
of this, they would be as head-over-heels for it as I am!" That turned out to be
VERY much not true. First of all, not everyone is a believer, and only believers
are even capable of having a positive response to the truth (apart from the
gospel in the unbeliever's case). Second, the believer in question would have to
positive to the truth and genuinely seeking the truth. In our lukewarm era of
Laodicea, that is true of VERY few Christians, percentage-wise. That may well
change once the Tribulation begins and the dire circumstances shake them out of
their complacency, but I see no signs of that trend diminishing at present
(quite the opposite). Third, even if a person is a believer and is interested in
the truth, not every ministry is every Christian's personal "cup of tea". No
doubt there are many options for believers these days for just that reason. Part
of that issue as it relates to Ichthys is that there are many who are interested
but not THAT interested. These studies at Ichthys are pretty dense and not that
easy to read and understand without a good deal of effort. That has the effect
of winnowing out all but the truly positive – and I am happy with that result
(even if I do wish I could make the writing somewhat more accessible, but we are
who we are).
Finally, even in the case of the "truly positive" there are "hobby-horse"
issues, closely held favorite pet doctrines which happen to be incorrect, that
will make the Ichthys ministry a non-starter for some of these types as well.
Whether it's "life begins at birth" (wrong) or "water baptism is necessary"
(wrong) or "pre-Trib rapture" (wrong) or a fascination with politics and the
belief in political solutions (terrible for a believer to be involved in this
area) or some other personal attachment to a false doctrine which is countered
by the teaching here, if there is any resistance to accepting these materials
with at least a little bit of humility and faith, then they are as likely as not
to drive said person away. I'm deeply grateful that you weren't driven off, my
friend! And I very much appreciate your good words. Feel free to write me about
anything in this study about which you have questions.
Your friend in Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.
Question #30:
Hi sir,
Finalizing the synopsis of God's Timetable for Human History. Your work is
really in-depth and provides me confidence to speak about it.
Thanks for your friendship and pastoral guidance in this trying time for our
family.
In Christ Jesus our Lord
Response #30:
I pleased to hear that you are persevering, my friend! I'm also happy to hear
the good news about the recent positivity of your family member, and I'll be
happy to respond to any questions that arise. I wish all the people I love would
be as enthusiastic about the Word of God – even if it's not this ministry
they're crazy about – but that is sadly not the case in each and every case.
Most of my near and dear are very good Christians, but not all of them are
convinced of the need to really learn the truth or of the value of doing so.
So I rejoice for and in you, my friend!
I'll be keeping your family in my prayers.
In Jesus Christ our dear Lord and Savior,
Bob L.