Question #1:
Do you have any articles on your website about how to apply teaching
like the Sermon on the Mount to our personal lives?
You mentioned that there is a calculus that can be applied, that the
teachings on how to live are general. How can Hebrews 12:14 just be
general?
Thanks
Response #1:
In terms of "calculus", that doesn't sound at all like me (especially
not with my aversion to math). Reference?
On the Sermon on the Mount, I've never covered it seriatim but I have
had occasion to deal with most if not all of the passages individually.
Here
is a link to a PDF spread sheet where those passages can be tracked
down as to where they are talked about / treated at Ichthys:
Ichthys translations.
Also check the subject index (link)
for topics you are interested that are treated therein.
As to "How can Hebrews 12:14 just be general?", I'm not sure what you
mean. It means what it says and it says what it means. I understand you
have a different opinion of what it means. To me, it's clear that the
"peace" we are to pursue is primarily with God (as indicated by the
Greek and consistent with other passages: e.g., Jn.14:7; 16:33; Rom.5:1;
Phil.1:7; 2Tim.2:22; 1Pet.3:11-12; 2Pet.3:14). I'm not sure what is
"general" about taking it either way, however.
Naturally, we want to live at peace with everyone and for those who are
pleasing to the Lord, He provides that peace (Prov.16:7). But first and
foremost mankind needs reconciliation with God the peace with Him that
only the cross could ever have occasioned. Jesus bought that peace for
us, we receive it initially through faith in Him, and thereafter we are
to grow in the peace, the day by day moment by moment "Sabbath rest"
that is our present day fulfillment of the fourth commandment.
"Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."
John 14:27 NKJV
"These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will[fn] have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."
John 16:33 NKJV
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #2:
For example go and be reconciled. Is that applied to every case and if
not, are Jesus words more in general, and people choose if it needs to
be, or how it us applied?
Thanks,
Response #2:
You have heard that it was said to those of old, You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment. But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca! shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, You fool! shall be in danger of hell fire. Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift."
Matthew 5:21-24 NKJV
I believe I have explained this passage to you before. The context here
is "being angry without cause", and it comes in the context of reproving
those who rely on appearances whereas it is what is going on in the
heart that counts: murder in the heart (as here), adultery in the heart
(vv.27-32), are sinful even if there is no outright physical act. So
this passage is not first and foremost about reconciliation between
brothers but about not being a hypocrite who plays at having a
relationship with God while living sinfully.
As to trying to apply this passage to today: 1) this is not Israel; 2)
we are not Israelites; 3) there is no altar; 4) there are no gifts being
offered on the altar; 5) there are no brother Israelites who are
symbolically part of the kingdom (these would probably be believers in a
parallel application); 6) and the main issue to keep in mind is that it
is HYPOCRITICAL to offer a sacrifice to God when one is really putting
one's brother to death in their heart "for no just cause".
So in terms of what this would "look like" today obviously would require
in the interpretation adapting many features of this passage to take
into account the differences above. As long as we confine it to the main
point, hypocrisy being condemned, there is no problem. However, trying
to suss out the reconciliation part and make rules for present day
behavior is likely to result in interpretive malpractice. Which other
parts are valid and how to apply them is something that the Spirit would
have to guide us in doing, making use of our spiritual common sense and
the truth we have learned from scripture elsewhere, with mature
believers who are walking closely with the Lord doing a better job of
that than others.
So what do I take away from this passage? 1) Don't be a hypocrite; 2)
don't harbor anger in your heart; 3) instead love everyone, even your
enemies (cf. vv.43-48). I wouldn't even take the reconciliation part to
be of necessary import here because that is only mentioned as the way to
remove the hypocritical anger which is the problem our Lord is
addressing. What I can say for certain is that if a person reads this
passage and emphasizes "reconciliation" above what the passage is really
about, that is a definite misinterpretation and can lead to dangerous
and false applications for reasons we have discussed in the past, such
as obligating Christians to seek out and make amends to any and all they
realize they hadn't been one hundred percent loving towards in the past.
I.e., "I recall that I didn't say hello to X when he greeted me that one
time last year because I was miffed at him for some reason, so before I
say grace I'd better go over to his house and apologize". This is
something we confess to God because He is the one against whom we
actually sin (Ps.51:4). Requiring making amends to others so as to be
reconciled to them is a legalistic yoke that would break anyone's back
in short order and the Bible does NOT require (not even, as explained,
this passage).
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #3:
In an email from a while back you said seeking reconciliation with
someone who doesn't want is not a good idea and used 1 Cor 7 where Paul
states that if an unbelieving marriage partner doesn't want to be
reconciled let them go as God has called us to peace.
The peace here is not one of reconciliation but peace from the turmoils
and arguments of someone who doesn't want to be married and live in the
same dwelling as the Christian partner. People I have hurt in life,
don't have to live with me, or be married to me.
So using this verse, to say stop trying, isn't the situation different
and so it doesn't apply?
Regards
Response #3:
I would never dream of telling another believer how to live their lives.
It is my duty, however, when asked about things Bible-related, to weigh
in when someone is misunderstanding scripture.
Whether or not a person decides to keep trying to reconcile with others
who are not interested is their business. If someone tells me it's
their biblical duty, however, that is where I have to say "show me the
scripture". Making a personal choice is one thing. Making a rule where
the Bible doesn't is quite another.
I pray for your peace. I know from much personal experience and
observation that becoming fixated on any issue which looks backward
inevitably stymies all progress forward in the Christian life.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #4:
Would you say the text in 1 Cor 7 can be used to cease seeking reconciliation?
Obviously the situation is not exactly the same since it about cohabiting and
letting that person so as to live in peace.
Regarding Matt 5:24 onwards you said that you take from this not to be a
hypocrite, not to hate and love your enemies. OK fine. Why did Jesus mention
reconciliation at all, since this has to do with someone being angry with us for
whatever reason?
Regards
Response #4:
But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace.
1st Corinthians 7:15 KJV
Seems pretty clear that peace is the goal. Reconciliation is "peace
making", but as in the case above, sometimes separation having nothing
further to do with the problematic party is the best, even the ONLY
way for there to be peace. And if wrong-headed "peace making" efforts
result in the opposite, strife and unhappiness, that turns the whole
process on its head. That is the opposite of what Paul counsels above.
On Matthew 5:24, the whole context is about loving one's brethren . . .
and castigating those who do not. So if a person is not treating their
fellow believers right, it is utter hypocrisy to "go to church and sing
hymns", e.g. First things first. That is what the Lord is saying there.
E.g., if you borrowed 10K from a fellow Christian when you were in need,
and now, when you do have it to pay back, and he is need, but you aren't
willing to do so, don't imagine that God is pleased with that because
you are going to church on Sunday.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #5:
What would you say (playing devil's advocate here) if I replied that the
1 Cor 7 situation is different from seeking peace with people outside,
since we don't have to live with them? Paul is addressing not living
with someone and this could cause problems living with someone in vlise
quarters. So should this be applied to the situation of seeking
reconciliation with someone outside of a marriage were you are literally
living 'on top' of that person?
Hope you are doing well your side of the pond.
Regards
Response #5:
Doing well - thanks for asking (hope the same is true for you).
It is certainly true that the interpretation of 1st Corinthians 7 is all
about marriage issues; that doesn't mean that we can't glean other
things, insights into the application of scripture, from the passage
(the same principle applies to the whole Bible, otherwise we would have
no reason to read, e.g., the Old Testament anymore; cf. Rom.15:4).
That is my take: there are plenty of easily imagined situations where
trying to get people from our past to "bury the hatchet" with us would
be a big mistake: pointless and potentially leading to all manner of
even dangerous situations.
As mentioned, I'm certainly not going to "write a rule" since this is an
area of application: in all such matters, we all need to let the Spirit
guide us. Prayer is important here too. And we always need to remember
that the Spirit uses the truth we have learned and believed to do the
guiding. So spiritually mature believers who spend time daily in scripture
and good Bible teaching are infinitely more likely to make good
decisions in applying the truth to the variables of life than those
aren't/don't. But again, we are here to keep marching forward hard to
do when we are fixated on looking backward. Paul persecuted the Church
vigorously before he was saved. If anyone had a reason to want to
apologize to individual Christians, it was him. But there is no record
of him ever doing so, beyond "owning" what he had done. Indeed, it is
Paul who tells us the right way to live the Christian life, NOT looking
backward:
(12) [It is] not that I have already gotten [what I am striving for], nor that I have already completed [my course]. Rather, I am continuing to pursue [the prize] in hopes of fully acquiring it [this prize for whose acquisition] I was myself acquired by Christ Jesus. (13) Brethren, I do not consider that I have already acquired it. This one thing only [do I keep in mind]. Forgetting what lies behind me [on the course] and straining towards the [course] ahead, (14) I continue to drive straight for the tape, towards the prize to which God has called us from the beginning [of our race] in Christ Jesus. (15) So as many as are [spiritually] mature, let us have this attitude (i.e., of focusing on our spiritual advance and reward and not getting hung up on what lies behind: vv.13-14), and if in any matter your attitude is off-center, God will reveal that to you (i.e., assuming you are mature and are advancing as you should). (16) But with respect to the progress you have made, keep on advancing in the same way!
Philippians 3:12-16
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #6:
Bill Lunginbill do we know whether most Jews in Jesus time were
practicing religious Jews? (Ref Matthew 5:22) Why a native Jew by
"brother", why not a member of the same religious community?
Doesn't Hebrews 12:14 fit more with Romans than "...along with"
"Pursue peace with all...." (Heb 12:14)
"..be peaceable with all" (Romans)
You translated Heb 12 v14 as 'among' all men instead "..with all men"
Wouldn't the translators have used your word if that was correct?
Further in Heb 12:14 that the "...with all.." is referring to believers.
What makes you think the "all" is only referring to pursuing the peace
of God only among believers?
Blessed are the peace-makers is this bring people to God or us making
peace with God?
Peter states to seek peace and pursue it. How do we know what kind of
peace Peter is talking about?
If verses like the one in Hebrews is referring to the peace of God and
to believers. Where are the verses that speak of reconciliation with
people outside of the body of Christ? Seems odd nothing would be said
about that, and just members
Thanks
Response #6:
Pursue peace with everyone, and sanctification, without which no one will see the Lord.
Hebrews 12:14
I stand by this translation.
". . . peace with all . . ." is the literal translation. There is no
"men", but that is what we understand from the masculine plural ending
on the adjective "all" (this is Greek 101 stuff even though it doesn't
work this way in English).
The POINT is that the peace we all should be pursuing is reconciliation
with God, first at salvation, then in drawing closer to Him through
spiritual growth parallel to the sanctification mentioned in the verse
which is likewise God-ward not man-ward. Nothing wrong with "being at
peace" with all we all crave that. But we cannot PURSUE peace with
human beings. That is something God has to provide (cf. Prov.18:19).
However we can and we should be pursuing our relationship with the Lord,
entering into His rest, His peace, every day and we believers should
ALL be doing with (i.e., "with everyone" in the translation above;
Heb.3:11-4:11; cf. Heb.12:11).
Here is a link where that passage is explained in some detail.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #7:
Do you believe in being born again you have to ask Jesus into your heart and do you believe in once saved always saved
Response #7:
Good to make your acquaintance.
Re: "Do you believe in being born again you have to ask Jesus into
your heart"? I've never read that anywhere in scripture. Here is
what I read in the Bible:
"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved."
Acts 16:31
For more about this, please see Bible Basics
4B: Soteriology at the link.
Re: "do you believe in once saved always saved"? If by this you
mean that a believer cannot ever lose their salvation no matter what
they think or do or say even if they eventually apostatize and reject
Jesus Christ, of course not:
"Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away."
Luke 8:13 NIV
Only believers are saved (Jn.3:18); if a believer stops being a believer and reverts to being an unbeliever, they are not saved. Mind you, it is not "easy" to lose salvation, and all that is necessary to retain it is to retain our faith in Christ. That should not be difficult . . . for those who are spiritually advancing day by day in the truth. But for the lukewarm, once the Tribulation begins, it will be difficult for many to do so (one third are prophesied to lose their faith during those difficult seven years). All the more reason to commit to spiritual growth through a ministry such as Ichthys.
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by Gods power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
1st Peter 1:3-5 NIV
For more on this subject see the links:
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #8:
Dear Brother Bob, hope you are well.
It is good to hear from you. How have you been? It has been a while
since we last connected. I have been going through 1 and 2 Kings in my
devotionals and the phrase that really stands out to me that I have
missed all my life is "according to the word of the Lord". What God says
will come to pass. I think there is a verse in Psalms that says that
forever God's word is settled. I have believed this to some degree for a
long time, but it has become more of a growing conviction.
Thanks for letting me know of your latest post in Hebrews. I love the
Book of Hebrews. There is so much truth about Jesus there. I forgot if I
had mentioned that I have had some significant trauma and so my memory
is not that good. I use speech software to navigate the internet as I am
blind and so sometimes information is difficult to find. Is there a
place where I can sign-up to receive your updates?
Love in Christ,
Response #8:
It's good to hear back from you, my friend! Thanks for the insight.
I'm sorry to hear that you have memory problems too. You have really
done well in a way honoring to the Lord to have overcome such obstacles!
There is an RSS feed for Ichthys (at
the link). For many browsers nowadays that requires an extension of
one sort or another. Also, I'm not sure exactly how that would work in
terms of aural notifications. I used to have a mailing list where I
announced new postings, but since it wasn't actual spam of course these
messages got flagged as spam and my website started to get blocked, so I
had to revert to one person at a time, and since I have limited time,
it's rare for me to get around to emailing people I'm not directly
replying to more than about once a year. *However, when I do make a new
posting now, I always put it up on the email posting page for a week. So
if you're reading the email
postings weekly, you'd never miss one (the RSS feed is updated for
these weekly postings as well).
Keeping you in my daily prayers, my friend.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #9:
I know you say to not focus on and even ignore the evils of men, but
some people seem to hate others just for liking a show or other media
they personally don't like. Apparently all people who like One Piece(an
anime) are giant manchildren who bawl and try to cope when anyone brings
up "all the objective reasons their show is trash", and apparently
trying to refute such toxic stupidity makes you an even bigger manchild...why
are so many people like this just because they don't like it, or even
because the fandom can be toxic at times? I know you say your expertise
is teaching the Bible, but surely there's something it has to say about
such a level of hatred and idolatry. I know this might be pointless, and
this really doesn't matter much if at all, but these people tick me off
so much i must know why the're like this...
Read my last email, what I gave was just an example, this can happen
with any show or media. I just want to know why some people are so toxic
just because of it...the Bible is like a two edged sword, discerning the
thoughts and intentions of the heart, yes?
Be honest Doc, do I have an unhealthy obsession with the evils of men? I
just want to understand biblically why some people are so cold and
unloving, even hateful over such petty things...
Response #9:
I believe I've always been honest with you.
It's not unusual or terribly spiritually unhealthy to be evaluating what goes on in the world from the "divine viewpoint". Anything can be overdone, of course. If we find ourselves getting upset, well then, that IS a sign that we are allowing ourselves to become too emotionally involved. Ultimately, we shouldn't care too much about what the unbelievers are doing. We do want them all to be saved; we are more than willing and eager to give them the gospel . . . if and when they become interested; but we aren't going to change them otherwise and they are not going to change themselves either absent the intervention of the truth. Even when unbelievers do things that do affect us indirectly or even directly, we still don't have to pay it too much mind because God is taking care of us. This is the truth, even if, like Job, we may have to wait a minute or two for our deliverance. We don't want to be like the Israelites who reacted with griping and complaining and complete lack of faith the very moment that any serious test began. Everything down here in this world is a test of some sort; we need to back our emotions out and lead with what we know by faith whenever we start to get upset; we need to invest emotionally in the Lord and His truth, and dis-invest emotionally from all the material things down here that in the end make no real difference and over which we have no real control.
(24) Don't you know that all the runners in the stadium run the race, but that only one receives the prize? Run in such a way so as to achieve what you are after. (25) And again, everyone involved in competition exercises self-control in all respects. Those athletes go through such things so that they may receive a perishable crown of victory, but we do it to receive an imperishable one. (26) So as I run this race of ours, I'm heading straight for the finish line; and as I box this bout of ours, I'm making every punch count. (27) I'm "pummeling my body", one might say, bringing myself under strict control so that, after having preached [the gospel] to others, I might not myself be disqualified [from receiving the prize we all seek].
1st Corinthians 9:24-27
Let's not forget why we are down here.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #10:
Good afternoon,
Well the number of jobs I have to set up on our systems is 4 or 5 times
the normal amount for the past week. I told my supervisor the (easily
verifiable) figures and that therefore I would need some 21 hours of
overtime. And she gave me three hours. After I told her I continued to
get more than normal amount to set up, just piling on more. Well. I wish
I know what the commander type would do. I mean I can only do what I can
only do, but I don't want to throw in the towel, but I don't want to be
taken advantage of or miss all of my dailies so much.
I might could do it in less that 21 hours, maybe 14(?) if I really
pushed. But not 3.
I hope you are well. I got sick Sunday and couldn't do anything. Oh I
got to the part where Xerxes is invading Greece. It is good
storytelling.
I am with a day here and there making progress on Bible study. Need to
pick up praying again. Sigh. I don't want to be a downer. Here is a
smiley face :)
Lol. Please pray for me on the office work front. I feel like I will
push hard but it is just too much and will get in trouble when so much
is not done at the end of the week.
Thanks for everything. Oh, tell me how you are?
Response #10:
Yikes! You are overworked!
I have no problem with a person working hard or being asked to work hard. But if
you are being given more work than can possibly be done WELL while also
retaining your health and sanity, that is an issue.
Are your coworkers being equally burdened down, or are you being singled out? If
it's just you, that's a problem.
I am praying for you about your job, my friend, and I'll continue to do so.
You've read that far in Herodotus in Greek already? Wow! VERY impressive! Any
Classics grad program would be happy to have you (might need to learn a little
Latin too, however).
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #11:
You asked me a while back if others were being strained. And yes, it
looks like a lot of people in the larger group are. We had a
larger-group meeting and one of the managers was saying that they were
shortstaffed hence the number not being as great. And the director was
not having it. No it must be that you are simply not thinking hard
enough to find a way to still make it happen. I notice he did not
disagree that they were indeed shortstaffed. I also, after years with
this guy, don't think I have ever heard him say that he is at fault.
Ever. Oh no it is always the lower employees. Which makes me just throw
what he says out of the window. I mean a leader that overworks his
employees and then always makes them the ones at fault, and then has the
gall to bring up the Bible as part of his encouraging us to just accept
things (well he isn't really clear as he won't let himself be pinned
down on any stance), but I don't think you should bring up God if you
treat people like that. This is assuming I am correct in the conclusion
that you shouldn't treat people like that.
Anyway, what happens, happens. Thanks for all your help my dear friend.
I will look at those verses again and try to set aside time to meditate
on them.
Just to clarify, he mentioned the Bible and God, but as I said, he tends
to be one of those people who constantly shift what they say, and tend
to bs and not speak straight, so I am not sure what he was really saying
with that.
Response #11:
Since it seems that all your co-workers have the same "problem", it's
really the situation that the organization doesn't have sufficient
manpower to do what they want to get done in the time they want to do
it. That is THEIR problem. Regardless of pressure, some things can't be
done any faster and still be done well. What I find foolish on their
part is that the country is in the midst of a severe labor shortage.
Everyone else is hiring and everyone else is raising wages. Any
organization that abuses its workforce is likely to lose more and more
until it can't function at all.
Keeping you in prayer on this.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #12:
Hi Dr Luginbill,
I was reading in James where he says
"If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, You
shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well; but if you show
partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as
transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in
one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, Do not commit
adultery, also said, Do not murder."
Tell me if I have this right: Before the Mosaic law there was a way
believers were supposed to live (after putting their faith in Him)-I
would assume that they had a version of loving the Lord and loving
others. A part of the Mosaic law is a writing out of some of those
principles (that have always been there before the Mosaic law came) into
specifics (like loving others being expressed as 'do not commit
adultery). So when the apostles refer back to the Mosaic law, they are
really referring not to it (as if we should follow the law (per
Galatians whole message)) but more to the underlying ideas of loving the
Lord and loving fellow humans expressed in the written law.
I have really struggled how to understand them constantly referring to
it as if we should follow it and then that there will be sacrifices
again in the future (I suppose as a memorial and new thing and not a
reinstitution of the Mosaic law) and that it isn't like there is a place
in the NT where they write down in one place specifics on what we
follow; and have been trying for a very long time to figure out how to
frame things. Do you think the framing in the paragraph above is it/or
very close?
Goodness I am so worn out. I wish I could take it easy for a week but I
just can't. They never let me get caught up so I am just sort of
struggling along. I do feel like I did my duty by informing them. I
think next week I will again say that I am behind.
Ironically the more I get dumped on me, the less I can do (I mean I go
slower and slower unintentionally, and keep having to stop, just no
energy).
Response #12:
That is a common thing: if we are weighed down, it's harder to walk, let
alone run
I'm keeping your job in my prayers.
On "the Law", I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say "them
constantly referring to it as if we should follow it". E.g.,
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Romans 10:4 KJV
. . . because by the works of the Law none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:20 NASB
Maybe you're thinking of sermons you've heard in the past from "pastors"
who didn't know what they were talking about.
Sure hope you get a break soon! No one can keep that up forever.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #13:
Okay maybe I am going at this wrong. Here is a more direct thing: where
in the Bible does it say not to show partiality (or perhaps I am
misunderstanding the word), except right there where he seems to think
his readers would already know? I presume either it is in the OT
somewhere unless we say he must have told them verbally.
And then there is not eating meat of strangled animals in Acts 15:29.
There is also 1 Corinthians 14:34.
Response #13:
We are supposed to be impartial because God is impartial and He sets the
standard (Acts 10:34; Rom.2:11; Eph.6:9; Col.3:25).
Here's a link on that.
On the Jerusalem counsel, that was the early church's attempt to make
peace between Jewish and gentile believers by limiting what gentiles had
to do as far as the Law went (not forcing them to follow the Law - just
the opposite). The list there is all about not doing things which were
especially offensive to Jewish believers. From
BB
6B: under "Acts Chapter by Chapter":
Acts 15 - Often overlooked in this chapter wherein the so-called "Jerusalem council" gives its decision regarding the gentiles and the Law is that the church in Antioch was functioning perfectly well and indeed had been the launch-point for the first missionary journey whence our Lord's prophecy and mandate was now beginning to be fulfilled. The "input" from Jerusalem was entirely negative at first. Certain individuals, not restrained by the apostles in Jerusalem, had come to Antioch with the express purpose of attempting to force the gentile believers to follow the Law. In other words, the influence of Jerusalem on this occasion was at first entirely directed towards bringing things back around to the way Judaism had managed the Church beyond Israel before the coming of the Messiah. Had this effort been successful, it would have had the effect of rolling back the new wave of evangelism, killing off the grace ministry to the gentiles with a counter-wave of legalism.
Herein we see Paul and Barnabas taking the lead in resisting this wrong-headed impetus. Whereas these two great men ought to have been expending their efforts on moving the Church forward, on this occasion they had to take pains to ensure that it was not rocked violently backward. The upshot of course was the letter making "concessions" to the gentiles, asking them only to avoid certain pagan behaviors which were especially offensive to Jewish believers. And these were reasonable requests. What is interesting is that while Peter's testimony is of critical importance, James is the one who takes the lead in settling the issue. In the Lord's eyes, Peter and certainly also Paul were the ones truly in authority. Disrespect for genuine divine authority is nothing new, of course (as most any of Israel's prophets could testify), but it would take some time until the apostles fully recognized what they had been given (even then, acting with humility; cf. 2Pet.1:12-21; 3Jn.1:9-12 for Peter, John and Paul respectively; and see the entire book of Hebrews).
As to 1Cor.14:34, it says, "as the Law also says": the NT always uses
the OT to support it, when such support is consistent with right
teaching which still obtains. E.g., just because we're not under the
Law, doesn't mean that now murder is OK.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #14:
Hi Dr Luginbill,
Do you remember what you said about how it didn't make sense to you for our
management to overwork employees given so many people leave their jobs for new
ones now? Well a few months ago we brought on two new ladies (just in our
smaller group of 4 or 5) and one left after 2 months, and 1 told me with all the
work she had thought about walking out. And my supervisor of my smaller group
mentioned just our smaller group itself is understaffed last week. And now
today, another lady who has not been here as long as me but has been at least a
couple of years, and did a lot of work is leaving this Friday. So...how does it
feel for reality to reflect what you said? lol.
Also in the interim some of the girls who came and left in short periods-they
made mistakes and I had to do the work per their wrong specifications. I mean
you'd think the employee that had been here 9 years would have more say, but no.
And these mistakes can be only tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of
dollars. They are credit analysts and I am sort of an admin person (not a credit
analyst). As I have said it would seem to make more sense to me to just do more
to keep employees on longer (by treating them better) than deal with the
constant hiring and training and hidden mistakes you don't see until they are
gone. There is a lot of lost knowledge about the process and the tasks and
history (of tasks and process) like this. And other things, and it seems to me
you won't really know what is going on on the ground because you barely met the
people you are working with, and they barely learned what they are supposed to
do (from what I can tell, the company doesn't provide adequate time for
training, or enough training). And you can't have real camaraderie with a
revolving door. You are less invested in the company because they can and will
drop you in a flash.
But with the other route that I like (longer retention) you avoid all that AND
feel good about treating your employees well, but what leader cares about the
second? (Just a little hyperbolic).
I just did a 1.5 hour long training about performance reviews (what to say at
them, how to prepare, etc). I may have had a couple sort of review my whole 9
years here (at the very beginning) (where the manager talked to me). So it just
seemed kind of pointless. But in any case, all the stuff they were talking about
in the training, if they were actually doing it, it would be even more loss of
work/resources with the revolving door of people. But we all have too much work
to also do that stuff. So there was training for something that won't have any
relation to me, and no they just squeezed in it and rushed it, instead of really
providing time to do it anyway.
The results of the people leaving, what it means-it feels a bit like vindication
though. Does it to you? Seriously why do companies prefer it this way just from
a profit standpoint? It really doesn't make sense to me...
Oh yeah three of us have gotten sick, and I am betting the overwork has
something to do with it (it did for me).
Response #14:
You seem to me to be such an excellent employee that it would really be
smart to put you into management. However, management, while it pays
better, is difficult and annoying. You get hit even harder by the higher
ups who demand unreasonable things immediately, and you get no love from
those below who are often NOT such good and honorable employees as
yourself. So there is definitely a trade off. Even in your current
position, they ought to give you a raise because how they would be
hurting if you moved on to something better too!
As to "why?", companies which act the way yours does often don't last
that long or at least they don't prosper relative to their competition
. . . and or when a new competitor arises they risk being "aced out" by
the builders of a better mouse-trap.
Incidentally, someone told me that you had had a bad experience on "the
forum". As you know, I don't have anything directly to do with it
(purposely), but I still wanted to apologize on "their" behalf. You are
a good Christian and worthy of respect.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #15:
Did I tell you a couple others also made themselves sick with the
overwork, including the supervisor? She even sent out an email telling
us to take care of ourselves. I mean I appreciate that, and don't mean
to rude but those kinda seem like just words when they just pile on the
work. Anyway, I was happy to have external evidence that I wasn't just
overdramatic or weak. I'm like the ISFJ (agreeable, conscientious,
neurotic), but sometimes I want to be like the ENTJ (you know, the TE
dom/commander/executive type). Not because I want to be those actual
things, but just that I want to get my goals and not waste my small
amount of hours in this life!
I hope you are well; please take care.
Response #15:
This lack of concern for employees' work loads is something you've been
mentioning for years. Doesn't look like it's going to change at this
point.
Reminds me of an old Greek joke: A man decided to teach his mule not to
eat. Every day he fed it a little less and a little less. Finally, the
mule died. When his friend arrived to commiserate he told them, "Yes,
and the worst part is that I had finally taught him not to eat!"
In other words, abusers just don't get it and never will.
Keeping you in my prayers, my friend.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #16:
Dear Teacher
[omitted]
Sorry about the missile, LOL. I never do care about your time, do I?
Pretty much what I told our friend. I know it's a sacrifice you make,
but then, if the Lord gave me a father in you, I'm sorry I'm not very
apologetic about using you like that. So I'm just grateful for all the
time that you give me and trust that the Lord will make it infinitely
worth all the trouble that I am.
Keeping you in our prayers here.
Your student in Jesus
Response #16:
It's always a pleasure to hear from you, my friend.
I'll be keeping the matter in my prayers.
As to the group and what to study, do you mean the Ichthys forum or your
local church? Either way, if we wait until we know everything before we
start doing something we'll never do anything (Eccl.11:4). If it's the
Ichthys group we're talking about, I think there are some on that who
like you do know some Greek, so there can be some interaction with that.
No doubt marriage changes many things. And a new country and a new job
will change many things as well. So there are going to be adjustments to
schedules and approaches out of necessity. When I got to Irvine to begin
my Ph.D. program, it changed things in my life a great deal from how
things had been in seminary. I had precious little time for the Bible
study I did before Irvine and thereafter, so this occasioned a change in
approach in order to make it through. There are only so many hours in
the day, so we always have to have the flexibility to adapt to whatever
new reality we're presented with but at the same time as we maintain a
certain amount of resilience in not letting things of the first priority
fall completely by the wayside.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #17:
Dear Teacher
Thank you very much for your prayers. They mean very much to us here. I suspect
that they are a big part of why I don't feel stressed by the whole thing these
days.
[omitted]
Have you been well, Sir?
Your student in Jesus
Response #17:
It's my pleasure.
I'm sure that you are capable of figuring out the costs and ratios of
the different options better than I. It is true that the entire Pacific
coast from San Diego to Vancouver is frightfully expensive. "Salaries
not covering expenses" is what everyone who lives out there has to deal
with (for the most part). It has been quipped that the only way to get a
house in southern CA is to inherit one. Not far from the mark in my
experience. I've heard that B.C. isn't much better (Seattle and Portland
aren't either nor is northern CA).
I haven't actually lived anywhere but Louisville in over thirty years,
however, so take the above with a grain of salt. Never even been to
Switzerland, but I have heard that that place is frightfully expensive
too.
One thing I DO know is that the Lord always provides. When I went off to
seminary on a wing and a prayer with everything I owned of value jammed
into my little Datsun B210, I had no real idea of how things would work
out. I didn't get any scholarship as I was hoping because I didn't have
a wife and kids and all of Talbot's scholarships turned out to be need
based irrespective of qualifications. But the Lord did provide a room in
a very old house with several other students for only $75 a month and
thus I was able to squeak by without any crisis. So my advice is to
listen to the Spirit and do what it is you think the Lord is directing
you to do. If you do, He will take care of you. Planning, especially
reverse planning can be very important. Over-planning
usually backfires, however. We have to include a certain amount of
flexibility in our attempts to cope with the always uncertain future.
Blessedly, God's plan for us is perfect. So keep trusting in Him
to work it out.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #18:
[omitted]
About the video, it was a <60s clip of Frank Turek (a Christian
apologist) answering a young lady who asked him how to answer skeptics
and mockers who say that the Bible can mean anything to anyone. It's a
common allegation that unbelievers bring against our faith. I thought
that his answer was very good when he said that a good response to such
people would be to misinterpret their own words and claim that their
words can mean anything to anyone.
Response #18:
Good to hear this report about your family! I'm keeping them in prayer.
On the discussion, I don't know the person in this video and am not sure
why someone would spend their time on such things (I did not watch it);
so there is that.
As to the discussion itself, at Talbot they were fond of saying, "When
the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense". That sounds great, but
they used this "saw" to justify all manner of misinterpretations of
scripture, misinterpretations which might have been clarified if some
diligent study had actually been applied to the passage instead of
relying on empty aphorisms; so there is that too.
As to what I do in this ministry, I do answer questions or try to. I
do work with people trying to help them see the truth . . . as long as
they are willing. If they prove that they aren't, then I do move on. But
then this is NOT an apologetics ministry. It is a Bible TEACHING
ministry. There is a point, a time, a role, a set of gifts that do
pertain to arguing with unreasonable people. Stephen had that set of
gifts. Of course they stoned him to death; so there is that too.
As to methodology of discussions between Christians, I am loath to write
rules any more than for all other things in which application rather
than doctrinal principles spelled out in scripture are at issue. That is
philosophy, or classical theology (or possibly also apologetics); not my
fields. Rather than worry about things "in principle" where there is no
actual biblical principle but merely a derived "principle" which will
probably founder in any attempt to apply it to real life, I prefer
seeking and teaching what the Bible actually DOES have to say (and it
does say more than enough without the need for us to produce exhaustive
sets of rules or theologies which are more our [wrong] opinions than
biblical truth). That is to say, if someone wants to talk about
water-baptism, I say, "let's look at the scripture", rather than to plug
it into some theoretical model derived from "logic" rather than the
Bible.
In terms of believers debating, on the one hand, without the gift of
pastor-teacher and the proper preparation, believers without the gift
aren't going to break any new doctrinal ground, most likely. And if they
do, how can they have confidence that they are right? I have seen this
in plenty of instances. Some believer who gets all het up about one
point of interpretation or another and then makes it a "hobby horse"
which dominates his/her whole Christian experience thereafter, like
trying to convince everyone else that the crucifixion actually happened
on a Thursday. It didn't, but even if it did, that wouldn't put the
person any closer to maturity or spiritual advance or reward, especially
since these discussions are keeping him/her from all other truth.
Does all this have something to do with the fora you guys have /
participate in? I think it is good for like-minded Christians to be able
to talk with each other. Keeping in mind the purpose of such meetings
would probably be good.
And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Hebrews 10:24-25 ESV
If believers are being mutually encouraged by meeting and fellowshiping, that is all to the good and fulfilling the above. If they are getting into arguments, then something is wrong. There is teaching and there is fellowship which "stirs up love" and ministry. But conflict of any sort is contrary to the whole purpose scripture envisions for "church".
I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.
1st Corinthians 1:10 ESV
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #19:
A lot of my confidence and comfort comes from the knowledge that you
pray for us. I feel pretty sure that the Lord hears you on our behalf
even if He might not countenance the prayers of multitude others. So,
thank you very much for continuing to help us out like that. It has
certainly made our trials easier for us to bear.
[omitted]
Response #19:
Thanks for the background, my friend.
On prayer, it's true that "The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous
man availeth much" (Jas.5:16 KJV), but I would be beyond reluctant to
put myself anywhere near Elijah's status (he is the example James is
using). Also, Jesus loves us all and hears all of our prayers. It is
also a mistake for believers to think, "God doesn't hear me but He will
hear good Christian XYZ". Of course we do battle for each other in
prayer, and there is effectiveness in that mutual support (Matt.18:19).
In any case, you can be sure that I am praying for you and yours daily.
Good news about "things looking up" in your training! I have been
praying consistently for the Lord to open up a door for you for a good
professional track/opportunity. What I don't know about this field and
about the options available is a lot. You are clearly an extremely
talented man and God has blessed you with many other wonderful
attributes as well. So I am certain that once you find the right path,
you will attack it with energy and have success and I pray for that.
In terms of the fora, I am speaking from a certain level of ignorance
here since I've never been on it/them, and have never participated in
such thing. I was somewhat skeptical when the idea was first broached.
What I thought/think could/can be beneficial was/is a way for
prospective pastors to have the sort of fellowship that only individuals
in that preparatory mode can have and need to have, namely, others to
share concerns and cares with, about scriptural issues but also about
the process of training and the different opportunities and challenges
ahead. I never thought a debate society to solve theological and
philosophical "problems" would be healthy. For those who are not
pastors-in-waiting/training, this sort of thing seems to me to be very
problematic. It's good for believers to get together for mutual
encouragement in the Word, and since in our day "churches" are not
particularly well-suited for that (since they care little for the Word
in truth beyond lip-service), I was not averse to something like that
being tried as well. Mixing the two seems to me to be asking for
trouble. I'm not saying that is what anyone is doing because I don't
know (and don't particularly want to know). If in spite of all these
potential pitfalls, you all have remained friends and those who are not
PTs have not been caused to stumble, then that is a testimony to the
spiritual maturity of all concerned.
You all (PTs and non) are very good for each other. I would strongly
counsel all concerned to concentrate on the mutual love and esteem you
all have and should have one to another, and if some issue becomes a
distraction, to let it go (Eph.4:2-3).
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #20:
I have a couple of questions, please.
What are your own personal opinions of Europe? I worry a little that the
sociopolitical landscape there is not very good for raising a family.
[omitted]
Response #20:
I'm not the best person to ask about Europe. I think it is fair to say that the
spiritual level of the place is extremely low and also that the toleration level
there for expressing biblical and genuinely spiritual points of view is also
very low. Not that the US has anything to brag about lately on either score, but
at least the frog isn't boiling over here yet (so to speak). Canada seems to be
a different story.
It is ironic that we have some half a million or so people here now coming over
our border illegally every month, but for excellent prospects such as yourself,
moral, law-abiding, well-educated individuals who would be immediate assets to
any society, there are plenty of obstacles. I keep you in my prayers on this.
As to asking questions, it strikes me that it is difficult to ask a question one
doesn't really have just for the sake of doing that. Ideally, all
pastor-teachers will prepare to the point of being able to find answers to their
own questions through the proper methodology, questions that can be answered by
seeking those answers in scripture, at any rate.
I have issues with hypothetical and theoretical questions and questions which
involve rehashing the past, past situations, and past applications. We make our
decisions; we live with them. We know that God was always fair to us; we attempt
to walk forward with faith. To get better at our applications, we grow closer to
Him through the truth and get better at listening to the Spirit. None of us will
ever "arrive" on that score this side of heaven-home, so we all need a good dose
of humility about such things. If we err, we confess. In any case, we move on,
we keep progressing, we keep running, we keep fighting the fight no matter
what.
Feel free to write me any time, my friend for any reason.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #21:
Dear Teacher
Thank you very much, Sir.
That was my reading of Europe, Oceania, and Canada too. I wanted to know if you
saw things differently. Unless circumstances force us (as they appear to be
doing), I'm not very crazy about living in any of those places. I just heard
back again from __ too. He had confirmed for me earlier that homeschooling is
illegal in Germany (not that I am particularly interested in going that route,
but just in case). Now he has added that there is some move toward LGBTQ+
ideology in classrooms or something to that effect. Our God is obviously able to
deliver His children like He did with Lot, but I'd rather not stick my finger in
the fire if there is some other way here.
Thank you too for your answer to my question. I think I'm understanding your
aversion to such questions more and more. It seems like a consistently potent
temptation to stray from teaching the truth to philosophizing and then building
on such philosophizing.
I asked before if you might have some suggestions for study in textual
criticism. I suspect that you have given me some in the past, but I can't find
them anymore. I have found email postings covering the topic, but I wanted to
know if you had any specific recommendations before I dive into them.
Your student in Jesus
Response #21:
It's my pleasure, my friend. I'm very happy to learn that you are keeping in
touch with ___. I didn't know some of these things about Germany, even though
they come as absolutely no surprise. In terms of what is taught in the schools,
I'm afraid that this and all manner of toxic ideologies are being shoved down
the throats of the young people in this country as well (and I am already seeing
it in my present crop of students, so it's been percolating out there a long
time). Of course in the US, it's legal to home-school and there are very few
restrictions on curriculum in private schools and there is backlash against
the excesses and outrages, many of which only came to light in the eyes of the
general population when the kids were at home and being taught remotely during
the "pandemic".
On textual criticism, this is a skill learned by doing. I don't think you've
reported on your Greek and Hebrew progress in a while (goodness knows you have
had and now have plenty on your plate). When you read your Greek New Testament
(or Hebrew Tanakh) do so using a critical edition (Nestles and BHS are
the most accessible respectively at present). There are books you can consult to
help you in the process once you're at that stage, but I would strongly advise
reading through the whole Hebrew OT a couple of times and the whole Greek NT
half a dozen times at least before worrying too much about this subject.
Facility with the language is the sine qua non in getting the right
solution in any given case.
Keeping you guys and your families in my daily prayers.
In Jesus,
Bob L.
Question #22:
Dear Teacher
It was the text that I was asking about, Sir. I wasn't sure what the correct
reading is, so I'm not even sure what the standard way of taking it is.
What throws me a bit in the Revelation passage is the "now is not" bit. Is it to
be understood as the only reasonable way to communicate what was soon to come to
be since the Rome of the Julian Caesars still existed while John was writing the
book (Given Rev. 17:10, Nero was still alive at that point, Sir, wasn't he?
Maybe I am not remembering correctly, but I think that that that is your opinion
too)?
I also asked about interpretation and exegesis in a postscript. I wanted to know
what the difference is between them or if there is none. I'd always thought they
were the same thing.
[omitted]
All of that got me interested in Jesus's move to Capernaum at the beginning of
His ministry. I'd never thought about it until yesterday. I didn't realize that
persecution to the point of attempted murder in Nazareth was why He left His
hometown to move His family to Capernaum. That was quite interesting to see.
Thank you for praying for us, Sir.
Your student in Jesus
Response #22:
The [first] five [of these kings] have fallen. The [next (i.e., the sixth)] one is now [alive] (i.e., Nero). The last (i.e., antichrist) has not yet come, and when he comes he must remain for a short time (i.e., the Tribulation).
Revelation 17:10
This is what the verse actually means, regardless of misguided attempts to make
something else out of the Greek tenses here. If one wants to communicate
existence, followed by non-existence, followed by renewed existence, using the
three relative tense-times is the only good way to do so in Greek thinking.
Remember also the timing is pegged not to the time of the writing of the letter
but to the perspective of John watching the Tribulation unfold in the vision he
has been given.
Exegesis and interpretation are synonyms; the former implies a more serious and
analytical approach to understanding the text, using scholarly tools and a solid
methodology to come to an exact understanding of actual meaning whereas
everybody has "an interpretation".
"I would prefer a place where we can live anonymously with little concern for
government intrusion into our personal affairs, but such places appear to me to
be shrinking in number" that is exactly how I see things too. The federal
govt. here has a wide reach; it's not really possible to escape it in any state
as the Covid policies demonstrated.
A main reason our Lord left His home town seems to be that they "knew Him" or
thought that they did. Which I suppose explains why they tried to kill Him
(Lk.4:14-30).
Thanks for your prayers too!
In Jesus,
Bob L.